Comments on: The Best Web Sites Are Useful and Ugly http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly Opinions. Commentary. News. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:23:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: doubleR http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-121156 doubleR Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:37:49 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-121156 I think that design should support usability. In the worst scenario design plays opposite role - it bothers to find needed information. I would not say that Ryanair achieves its profits mainly to its usability supported by well working design. This company run a lot of different marketing activities in order to get money. In other words - all marketing activities influence company profits. In terms of Ryanair design - despite it is ugly it does not bother in finding information and it is crucial. However it is difficult not to say that the web site looks as if was designed over 10 years ago. I am talking about all design details like huge "bevel and emboss" effects, icons looking like designed for Microsof Office, etc. Sometimes I think that it is Ryanair strategy ... cheap flights = cheap looking web site :) To be honest ... if I did not know the brand and if I visited their web site the first time in mi life I would probably leave it in a few seconds because I would not trust the web site looking like over 10 years old. In spite of that ... I always use their web site to buy tickets :) Why? Because their are cheap. Nothing else. At least their airplanes look better than their web site :) I think that design should support usability. In the worst scenario design plays opposite role – it bothers to find needed information. I would not say that Ryanair achieves its profits mainly to its usability supported by well working design. This company run a lot of different marketing activities in order to get money. In other words – all marketing activities influence company profits.

In terms of Ryanair design – despite it is ugly it does not bother in finding information and it is crucial. However it is difficult not to say that the web site looks as if was designed over 10 years ago. I am talking about all design details like huge “bevel and emboss” effects, icons looking like designed for Microsof Office, etc.

Sometimes I think that it is Ryanair strategy … cheap flights = cheap looking web site :) To be honest … if I did not know the brand and if I visited their web site the first time in mi life I would probably leave it in a few seconds because I would not trust the web site looking like over 10 years old. In spite of that … I always use their web site to buy tickets :) Why? Because their are cheap. Nothing else. At least their airplanes look better than their web site :)

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71645 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 21:14:25 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71645 Call me cynical but maybe this is Gerry's idea of a PR exercise. Standby for a raft of ugly websites. Call me cynical but maybe this is Gerry’s idea of a PR exercise. Standby for a raft of ugly websites.

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71635 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:57:06 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71635 Mark Boulton reflects on Gerry McGovern's naivety and clear lack understanding. http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/gerry-mcgoverns-clear-lack-of-understanding Mark Boulton reflects on Gerry McGovern’s naivety and clear lack understanding.
http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/gerry-mcgoverns-clear-lack-of-understanding

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71630 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:41:49 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71630 I do hope, Gerry, for the sake of your clients, that you are not involved professionally in website design & development. I do hope, Gerry, for the sake of your clients, that you are not involved professionally in website design & development.

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71628 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:40:35 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71628 What really frustrates me about post's like these is the undertow that design is secondary or even superfluous. This flies in the face of all we have learnt in the last 60 years about it's importance. All I hope is that businesses old and new don't listen to these damaging arguments. It's hard enough to succeed in these difficult times as it is. What really frustrates me about post’s like these is the undertow that design is secondary or even superfluous. This flies in the face of all we have learnt in
the last 60 years about it’s importance. All I hope is that businesses old and new don’t listen to these damaging arguments. It’s hard enough to succeed in these difficult times as it is.

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71627 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:40:07 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71627 Have you noticed that the Web has started to grey?' No I haven't. I have noticed the use of different shades and tone to create order and visual hierarchy, vital tools for functionality. Even this 'ugly' page uses them to prevent visual chaos. Have you noticed that the Web has started to grey?’

No I haven’t. I have noticed the use of different shades and tone to create order and visual hierarchy, vital tools for functionality.

Even this ‘ugly’ page uses them to prevent visual chaos.

]]> By: peter http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-71626 peter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:39:26 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-71626 The entire premise of this post is flawed. Good design is about communication. If a site is functional AND beautiful/creative, then it is succeeding. If a site is functional and ugly then it's failing. Don't confuse good design with beautiful. Good design is how something works not what it looks like, The by-product of which is often beauty in one shape or another. I smell the not the uncommon whiff of design prejudice here. The entire premise of this post is flawed.
Good design is about communication.
If a site is functional AND beautiful/creative, then it is succeeding.
If a site is functional and ugly then it’s failing.

Don’t confuse good design with beautiful.
Good design is how something works not what it looks like,
The by-product of which is often beauty in one shape or another.

I smell the not the uncommon whiff of design prejudice here.

]]> By: rebekah donaldson http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29434 rebekah donaldson Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:39:57 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29434 Guessing bad. Testing good. Guessing bad. Testing good.

]]> By: Joachim Oster http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29433 Joachim Oster Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:42:22 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29433 "Ugly" has it's place: David Gelernter, HArvard professor and UNA Bomber victim, says that many Americans prefer 'ugly' because they associate it with 'function', and 'designed' pieces as having more of a 'look' than have 'function' ( clumsy Windows vs elegant MAC interfaces, bulky American vs slick European cars, LazyBoys vs. Bauhaus furniture, eg). In the US the 'Form follows Function' mantra is used as "Function requires a specific Form"; meaning it's gotta be 'ugly' to work properly. 'Ugliness' comes across 'functional'. Even inspirational. Fine with me: I don't have to change the world as a designer, just learn to see what makes people tick. “Ugly” has it’s place: David Gelernter, HArvard professor and UNA Bomber victim, says that many Americans prefer ‘ugly’ because they associate it with ‘function’, and ‘designed’ pieces as having more of a ‘look’ than have ‘function’ ( clumsy Windows vs elegant MAC interfaces, bulky American vs slick European cars, LazyBoys vs. Bauhaus furniture, eg). In the US the ‘Form follows Function’ mantra is used as “Function requires a specific Form”; meaning it’s gotta be ‘ugly’ to work properly.
‘Ugliness’ comes across ‘functional’. Even inspirational. Fine with me: I don’t have to change the world as a designer, just learn to see what makes people tick.

]]> By: Tim http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29432 Tim Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:23:39 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29432 I think there is a happy medium between the two. People can really get turned off on a poorly designed website, no matter if its ugly or beautiful. It also depends on what you'd consider to be an 'ugly' website. For example, while Youtube isn't fancy, I've never thought of it as ugly. I think there is a happy medium between the two.
People can really get turned off on a poorly designed website, no matter if its ugly or beautiful.
It also depends on what you’d consider to be an ‘ugly’ website. For example, while Youtube isn’t fancy, I’ve never thought of it as ugly.

]]> By: Krishnan S http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29431 Krishnan S Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:58:08 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29431 Hey Gerry! Your article was an interesting one. Yes, sites like eBay, amazon etc are hugely successful sites, and they might be ugly, at the same time they fall into the easy to use and navigate category. Would like to know your views about a new launch website that wants to cut through the clutter, and I guess one of the ways would be to create a uniquely creative / attractive / beautiful site Hey Gerry! Your article was an interesting one. Yes, sites like eBay, amazon etc are hugely successful sites, and they might be ugly, at the same time they fall into the easy to use and navigate category. Would like to know your views about a new launch website that wants to cut through the clutter, and I guess one of the ways would be to create a uniquely creative / attractive / beautiful site

]]> By: Suzie Park http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29430 Suzie Park Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:30:54 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29430 In the fashion business, however, ugly doesn't work. I agree however that for many things I've bought quite handily from ugly sites - a lot of yahoo shopping stores for example. I also hate flash sites. They waste my time - especially the fashion ones. Let me see the clothes, thanks! In the fashion business, however, ugly doesn’t work. I agree however that for many things I’ve bought quite handily from ugly sites – a lot of yahoo shopping stores for example. I also hate flash sites. They waste my time – especially the fashion ones. Let me see the clothes, thanks!

]]> By: Kris http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29429 Kris Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:38:40 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29429 Hi - I'd love some opinions on my client's site. www.bevmo.com Hi – I’d love some opinions on my client’s site.
http://www.bevmo.com

]]> By: Rosmarie Epaminondas http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29428 Rosmarie Epaminondas Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:15:06 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29428 Hello Gerry McGovern ... I suspect that everything comes down to lazy simplification. True, the most successful websites are ugly, but I suggest this simply means that those companies didn't give a damn, their emphasis was on product and sales. Keep these websites user friendly, keep the great product, improve the look of the website and I don't think that the buyers would suddenly flock to other sites just because they are ugly. Chicken and egg. There are a lot of marketing and branding tales around, where we all begin to believe our own 'truths' and in hindsight everyone has 20:20 vision. Take google, yahoo, amazon and oh so many other brandnames - does anyone really believe that, when these guys where agonising what to call their baby, they had any idea whether the name would sell the offer? A brand is only a vessel, a container. Call it sh...t and put in a brilliant product/solution. Once people grasp the fact that it's brilliant, they'll buy sh...t. Same with the websites. I am not advocating grey, small and elegant, I quite agree that that's a designer desease (however understandable from their point of view) and doesn't add to what a website must do: offer a great product/solution, easy use, easy reading, easy browsing, be idiot-safe and sell, sell, sell. But that doesn't mean they MUST be ugly. I'd rather think that they do their stuff EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE UGLY. Some visual improvement wouldn't do any harm and gladden the soul. Rosmarie Hello Gerry McGovern … I suspect that everything comes down to lazy simplification. True, the most successful websites are ugly, but I suggest this simply means that those companies didn’t give a damn, their emphasis was on product and sales. Keep these websites user friendly, keep the great product, improve the look of the website and I don’t think that the buyers would suddenly flock to other sites just because they are ugly. Chicken and egg.
There are a lot of marketing and branding tales around, where we all begin to believe our own ‘truths’ and in hindsight everyone has 20:20 vision.
Take google, yahoo, amazon and oh so many other brandnames – does anyone really believe that, when these guys where agonising what to call their baby, they had any idea whether the name would sell the offer? A brand is only a vessel, a container. Call it sh…t and put in a brilliant product/solution. Once people grasp the fact that it’s brilliant, they’ll buy sh…t. Same with the websites. I am not advocating grey, small and elegant, I quite agree that that’s a designer desease (however understandable from their point of view) and doesn’t add to what a website must do: offer a great product/solution, easy use, easy reading, easy browsing, be idiot-safe and sell, sell, sell. But that doesn’t mean they MUST be ugly. I’d rather think that they do their stuff EVEN THOUGH THEY’RE UGLY. Some visual improvement wouldn’t do any harm and gladden the soul.
Rosmarie

]]> By: Ralph http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29427 Ralph Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:30:55 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29427 Interesting discussion. To me, it is not about design, content, beauty or ugliness. It is about the visitor, the user. If you're message is a visual experience, by all means, put design first. If your message is about content, alas, a no-brainer. In the end, if you see your website first as a means to represent yourself, I believe visitors will recognize that. I personally use the web for information. I appreciate design, but I come back to the site if it answers my needs, not because it's pretty. If I want the Grand Canyon, I'll go and see it. But that's just me. Thanks Gerry. Ralph Interesting discussion. To me, it is not about design, content, beauty or ugliness. It is about the visitor, the user. If you’re message is a visual experience, by all means, put design first. If your message is about content, alas, a no-brainer. In the end, if you see your website first as a means to represent yourself, I believe visitors will recognize that. I personally use the web for information. I appreciate design, but I come back to the site if it answers my needs, not because it’s pretty. If I want the Grand Canyon, I’ll go and see it. But that’s just me.
Thanks Gerry. Ralph

]]> By: Ralph http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29426 Ralph Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:28:34 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29426 Interesting discussion. To me, it is not about design, content, beauty or ugliness. It is about the visitor, the user. If you're message is a visual experience, by all means, put design first. If your message is about content, alas, a no-brainer. In the end, if you see your website first as a means to represent yourself, I believe visitors will recognize that. I personally use the web for information. I appreciate design, but I come back to the site if it answers my needs, not because it's pretty. If I want the Grand Canyon, I'll go and see it. But that's just me. Thanks Gerry. Ralph Interesting discussion. To me, it is not about design, content, beauty or ugliness. It is about the visitor, the user. If you’re message is a visual experience, by all means, put design first. If your message is about content, alas, a no-brainer. In the end, if you see your website first as a means to represent yourself, I believe visitors will recognize that. I personally use the web for information. I appreciate design, but I come back to the site if it answers my needs, not because it’s pretty. If I want the Grand Canyon, I’ll go and see it. But that’s just me.
Thanks Gerry. Ralph

]]> By: Julie Kennedy http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29425 Julie Kennedy Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:35:55 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29425 Excellent discussion and many excellent points. On one level, isn't a website also a form of the product or service's packaging and therefore should exhibit the qualities consistent with other marketing materials? The point about ryanair.com is spot on; as a discount airline, one might be suspicious if the website was sleek and glamorous. On the other hand if I were shopping for flowers and came upon a website looking like ryanair's I wouldn't even consider looking let alone buying. Having said that, the ability for the user to navigate easily to get what they need (functionality and usability) is most important no matter what the "package" looks like. Excellent discussion and many excellent points. On one level, isn’t a website also a form of the product or service’s packaging and therefore should exhibit the qualities consistent with other marketing materials? The point about ryanair.com is spot on; as a discount airline, one might be suspicious if the website was sleek and glamorous. On the other hand if I were shopping for flowers and came upon a website looking like ryanair’s I wouldn’t even consider looking let alone buying. Having said that, the ability for the user to navigate easily to get what they need (functionality and usability) is most important no matter what the “package” looks like.

]]> By: Betty Carper http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29424 Betty Carper Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:32:37 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29424 Dear Gerry: Your article has some degree of merit, except when you stated that beauty was not useful. I vehemently disagree! Through the centuries, beauty has been a touchstone relating to the development of society. What you are saying is analogous to saying that because a work of art or a book is beautifully executed, it has no worth. That is simply idiotic. Additionally, you have two typographical errors in your article! The article is not beautiful, but it is useful and has some merit. Dear Gerry:
Your article has some degree of merit, except when you stated that beauty was not useful. I vehemently disagree! Through the centuries, beauty has been a touchstone relating to the development of society.
What you are saying is analogous to saying that because a work of art or a book is beautifully executed, it has no worth. That is simply idiotic.
Additionally, you have two typographical errors in your article! The article is not beautiful, but it is useful and has some merit.

]]> By: Michele Hajala http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29423 Michele Hajala Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:18:41 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29423 Gerry -- What Lewis Green wrote about designing around copy really resonates with me. I work for an organization who has consistently done "copy fitting" for new site designs, and all we end up with are "pretty" sites that miss the point of their real purpose. I also agree with Matt Dickman's assessment of the designs for the sites you cited. It doesn't seem plausible that the design of these sites were an "afterthought" for any of these online powerhouses. Design is a very important component of usability IN CONJUNCTION with usefulness and each part deserves equal consideration. Gerry — What Lewis Green wrote about designing around copy really resonates with me. I work for an organization who has consistently done “copy fitting” for new site designs, and all we end up with are “pretty” sites that miss the point of their real purpose.
I also agree with Matt Dickman’s assessment of the designs for the sites you cited. It doesn’t seem plausible that the design of these sites were an “afterthought” for any of these online powerhouses.
Design is a very important component of usability IN CONJUNCTION with usefulness and each part deserves equal consideration.

]]> By: Eniko http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29422 Eniko Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:44:23 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29422 All this talk of beauty vs. ugly and only a few mentions of the user? In the end, it's in the eyes of the beholder and people vote with clicks and dollars. All this talk of beauty vs. ugly and only a few mentions of the user? In the end, it’s in the eyes of the beholder and people vote with clicks and dollars.

]]> By: Chris Knudtson http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29421 Chris Knudtson Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:35:49 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29421 Great article. I agree with all of the web sites except Ryanair.com. When I am trusting my life with someone, I don't want to feel like am with a second rate airline that barely has enough money to put together a decent web site. In my eyes the design and effort of the web site directly reflect the values of the company. Great article. I agree with all of the web sites except Ryanair.com. When I am trusting my life with someone, I don’t want to feel like am with a second rate airline that barely has enough money to put together a decent web site. In my eyes the design and effort of the web site directly reflect the values of the company.

]]> By: Jason Bickel http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29420 Jason Bickel Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:05:46 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29420 I agree with the Harry Hillman. The look of a site should depend mostly on what is being sold or promoted. If I am researching which resort I should choose, I'm probbaly not going to choose a resort whose site doesn't accurately portray the resort. Conversely, if I am using a site simply as a search engine, I'm not expecting it to be extravagent. I don't think design appeal usually needs to suffer in order for a site to be functional. I agree with the Harry Hillman. The look of a site should depend mostly on what is being sold or promoted. If I am researching which resort I should choose, I’m probbaly not going to choose a resort whose site doesn’t accurately portray the resort. Conversely, if I am using a site simply as a search engine, I’m not expecting it to be extravagent.
I don’t think design appeal usually needs to suffer in order for a site to be functional.

]]> By: Ryan Barrett http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29419 Ryan Barrett Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:41:18 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29419 Hi Gerry - Easy to use and ugly are not synonymous. A good site is both easy to use and easy on the eyes. Example - Facebook: Pretty, incredibly simple, growing exponentially. MySpace: Disorganized crap on a screen, hard to figure out, crappy website. Hi Gerry -
Easy to use and ugly are not synonymous. A good site is both easy to use and easy on the eyes. Example – Facebook: Pretty, incredibly simple, growing exponentially. MySpace: Disorganized crap on a screen, hard to figure out, crappy website.

]]> By: Jim Kukral http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29418 Jim Kukral Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:27:36 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29418 The reason we still see countless "sales letter" pages that in my opinion are very ugly, is that "they work". They work, very, very well. I started out as a designer online in 95. It took me years to lose the ego. In the end it's about meeting your marketing goals. If you have to be ugly to do that, you have to do it. The reason we still see countless “sales letter” pages that in my opinion are very ugly, is that “they work”.
They work, very, very well.
I started out as a designer online in 95. It took me years to lose the ego. In the end it’s about meeting your marketing goals. If you have to be ugly to do that, you have to do it.

]]> By: Mahesh http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29417 Mahesh Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:27:11 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29417 good topic to post and great discussion too. well in my line of work i come to the design vs content crossroad quite a lot, although i cannot take one road. thats because i create content and put them up on the website (our only mode of reaching out to members btw). given a personal choice, i wud take the 'ugly' look of craigslist and stuff it with so much quality content that users just cant seem to give up on the site. that way i will retain a competitive advantage all along and also build unmatchable content over time (amazon, google, etc). now i can also focus on design partly but again it comes down to allocation of resources in the first place (75% content, 25% design). as i said i wud go with a base design (5% maintenance time) with 95% content creation (=quality). thats whats win-win for me and my users/customers/clients! good topic to post and great discussion too. well in my line of work i come to the design vs content crossroad quite a lot, although i cannot take one road. thats because i create content and put them up on the website (our only mode of reaching out to members btw).
given a personal choice, i wud take the ‘ugly’ look of craigslist and stuff it with so much quality content that users just cant seem to give up on the site. that way i will retain a competitive advantage all along and also build unmatchable content over time (amazon, google, etc). now i can also focus on design partly but again it comes down to allocation of resources in the first place (75% content, 25% design). as i said i wud go with a base design (5% maintenance time) with 95% content creation (=quality). thats whats win-win for me and my users/customers/clients!

]]> By: Shannon http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29416 Shannon Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:17:22 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29416 I agree. There are site that are beautiful and looks good but does not have that to offer. Take for example the <a href="http://www.rollingpricesback.com," rel="nofollow">http://www.rollingpricesback.com,</a> look simple but very improtant to me. It gives me the ease of shopping whenever i am busy shopping personally. There some other site too but there are too many to mention I agree. There are site that are beautiful and looks good but does not have that to offer. Take for example the http://www.rollingpricesback.com, look simple but very improtant to me. It gives me the ease of shopping whenever i am busy shopping personally. There some other site too but there are too many to mention

]]> By: Cam Beck http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29415 Cam Beck Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:45:46 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29415 Gerry - We should be careful making assumptions about why Amazon is successful. Yes, it is very useful, but not BECAUSE it is ugly. I'm confident that it could be made more attractive and still retain its usefulness and usability (and Amazon is able to break SOME usability rules based on the trust it has earned from speedy and accurate fulfillment of orders -- see Jakob Nielsen's 2005 take on the subject, titled "Amazon: No Longer the Role Model for E-Commerce Design"). "Beautiful" and "Useful" are NOT mutually exclusive. Nor are they even proportional (directly or inversely) with one another, although that mindset has often seen designers pitted against their siloed counterparts in usability. I would even say that means it's not even about "balance" between usefulness and beauty. You can have both. Of course, developers do have to make compromises all the time on the basis of business goals, limitations of the medium, and typical user behavior, but that's a different thing from saying that one must sacrifice beauty to be useful, or vice versa. Gerry – We should be careful making assumptions about why Amazon is successful. Yes, it is very useful, but not BECAUSE it is ugly. I’m confident that it could be made more attractive and still retain its usefulness and usability (and Amazon is able to break SOME usability rules based on the trust it has earned from speedy and accurate fulfillment of orders — see Jakob Nielsen’s 2005 take on the subject, titled “Amazon: No Longer the Role Model for E-Commerce Design”).
“Beautiful” and “Useful” are NOT mutually exclusive. Nor are they even proportional (directly or inversely) with one another, although that mindset has often seen designers pitted against their siloed counterparts in usability.
I would even say that means it’s not even about “balance” between usefulness and beauty. You can have both.
Of course, developers do have to make compromises all the time on the basis of business goals, limitations of the medium, and typical user behavior, but that’s a different thing from saying that one must sacrifice beauty to be useful, or vice versa.

]]> By: Steve Woodruff http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29414 Steve Woodruff Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:33:21 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29414 There's no reason to settle for ugly, no matter what the site. Given the nature and purpose of the site, simplicity/minimalism may be required. That's OK. But no matter what is being offered on the site, it can always be made attractive in some way. A little digital mascara and rouge can go a long way...! There’s no reason to settle for ugly, no matter what the site. Given the nature and purpose of the site, simplicity/minimalism may be required. That’s OK. But no matter what is being offered on the site, it can always be made attractive in some way. A little digital mascara and rouge can go a long way…!

]]> By: Gerry McGovern http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29413 Gerry McGovern Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:37:18 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29413 Ugly is a strong word. And that's why I think some web designers hate black text and large fonts. It's ugly. Whereas, grey text and small fonts are much more beautiful. I'd prefer ugliness any day. One thing I was trying to explore in my piece was the conflict between beauty and usefulness. Is it true that the more beautiful you make something, the less useful it becomes; that the more useful you make something, the less beautiful it becomes? The essence of the Web is about being useful. So, beauty takes second place to functionality. Sure, we should try and reach a balance, but a balance is not always possible. I don't know how many web designers have complained to me over the years about Amazon. I hapenn to think it is the model for ecommerce. We should do four-year degree courses on Amazon. Amazon has just announced that in its second quarter, it's earnings have tripled, revenue grew strongly and profit margins expanded. More ugly websites please. Ugly is a strong word. And that’s why I think some web designers hate black text and large fonts. It’s ugly. Whereas, grey text and small fonts are much more beautiful. I’d prefer ugliness any day.
One thing I was trying to explore in my piece was the conflict between beauty and usefulness. Is it true that the more beautiful you make something, the less useful it becomes; that the more useful you make something, the less beautiful it becomes?
The essence of the Web is about being useful. So, beauty takes second place to functionality. Sure, we should try and reach a balance, but a balance is not always possible.
I don’t know how many web designers have complained to me over the years about Amazon. I hapenn to think it is the model for ecommerce. We should do four-year degree courses on Amazon.
Amazon has just announced that in its second quarter, it’s earnings have tripled, revenue grew strongly and profit margins expanded. More ugly websites please.

]]> By: Mona Piontkowski, Irvine, CA http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/comment-page-1/#comment-29412 Mona Piontkowski, Irvine, CA Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:53:17 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/the-best-web-sites-are-useful-and-ugly/#comment-29412 I know that when I encounter a new website I rarely think about it's beauty but rather its functionality. I really don't want to spend precious minutes watching birds fly by or elephants dance - I want my information and I want it fast. When designing our website we tried to make it easy to use and read - sure we added a bit of color here and there but we weren't trying to repaint the Sistine Chapel just provide the best darn information on seminars we could. I really loved the Grand Canyon but I wouldn't want to sit online for half an hour while it loaded on my screen. I know that when I encounter a new website I rarely think about it’s beauty but rather its functionality. I really don’t want to spend precious minutes watching birds fly by or elephants dance – I want my information and I want it fast.
When designing our website we tried to make it easy to use and read – sure we added a bit of color here and there but we weren’t trying to repaint the Sistine Chapel just provide the best darn information on seminars we could.
I really loved the Grand Canyon but I wouldn’t want to sit online for half an hour while it loaded on my screen.

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