Comments on: “Save Money. Live Better.” (Unless It’s Black Friday)

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By: CK

CK — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:23:58 +0000

@David: But he didn’t open the doors sans the police–the doors were removed from the hinges by the mob/crowd before the store was even supposed to open. At that point it was way too late.
The crowd swelled to a reported 2,000 folks from the previous night–might the manager might have thought at some point that they needed more security (AND police) during that time? Especially since Alan and you are mindful of how uncommon these unruly crowds are in that area (I don’t know of this area, so I’m just learning that from Alan and you).
Yes, the crowd carries blame–and we’re waiting on rulings from the police as to whom will get charged (and with what charges). But if you’re promoting big sales…on the reportedly biggest shopping day of the year…with crowds swelling to 2,000…in an area that is “known” for poor behavior…why not protect customers and employees with better security? To me that’s just simply being responsible–so WalMart has been negligent and most definitely shares the blame.
PS: When I worked in retail marketing back in the 90s in an urban area, we always doubled-up on security on big shopping days. It was part of the process–and it was known that all big-box retailers and malls had these protocols. And for very good reason. While we never had a fatality (thank goodness), we once saw a fight break out. I’ll never forget how fast security defused the situation so that it didn’t reach a fever pitch and only the two people fighting were harmed. I also remember well the Head Security Officer looking at me and saying “You really only understand how valuable security is when we’re either here during a situation or worse… when we’re NOT here during a situation.” We went through some budget cuts during that time, and it affected most every program but we never cut security. And, again, it was SOP to have more security during big sales and big shopping days. WalMart knows this, they’re the king of big boxes, after all.

By: David Reich

David Reich — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:45:22 +0000

I’ve held off commenting on this because it seems everyone was jumping on this story and looking to assign blame — blame it on the marketing (absurd), blame it on the store. Wrong — Blame it on the people.
Alan Wolk got it right — the store is near a poor neighborhood where, unfortunately, rude behavior is not uncommon.
Ticketing might have worked. Giving free coffee and donuts would have only caused another stampede. In hindsight (where we’re all smarter) the store manager, seeing an unruly crowd, should have asked for police help before opening the doors.

By: Jay Ehret

Jay Ehret — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:04:44 +0000

CK, you found the key to this horrible incident: scarcity mentality. What does Walmart think is going to happen when you deliberately lure and attract people that have a scarcity mentality? Courtesy?
Every year there are stories in the media about incidents and fights over merchandise on Black Friday. The media is actually out looking for it. So for Walmart to be shocked that this happened is indeed negligent. And to act like nothing happened on their website is shameful.

By: CK

CK — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:33:49 +0000

@Liz: I’ll check out your blog post; thanks. The consumers shouldn’t get a free pass, they absolutely carry blame. It’s just that with the consumers it’s a police matter–so we’re in “wait mode” as to whom will be prosecuted and on what charges while the police examine the tapes and identify, I guess, whom all is to blame (it could be many on various charges spanning assault, vandalism, manslaughter, etc.).
But from a marketing angle, with Walmart, being it’s the business and needs to have/maintain the interests of its customers and employees, I’m just astounded at the negligence.
@Stephen: Yep, scarcity is a smart strategy (nothin’ against it, just asking retailers to prepare for it, as you agree). And I’ve no doubt WM will do well this holiday. Hope they do, they’re mighty important to this economy and we really *knock on wood* need some stability to keep money flowing and jobs steady. Thanks for bringing Michael Jackson into it

By: Liz

Liz — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:45:59 +0000

We just wrote a post on this as well, and it is appalling that Wal-Mart’s PR team has left much to be desired…however, the consumers are to blame as well.

By: Stephen Denny

Stephen Denny — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:37:15 +0000

ck:
To your questions:
1. Is Walmart on the hook? Yes. If someone slipped on a wet floor, they’d be liable. Why not this.
2. Should they (and any retailer) have rules and policies that stop this kind of behavior? Yes.
3. Is any publicity good? Ask Michael Jackson.
Other imponderables here:
1. Stampeding a Walmart? What happened to ’stack ‘em high and let ‘em fly’? Walmart doesn’t do a lot of discounting beyond EDLP.
2. There’s no Cabbage Patch Kid this year. Sure, consoles like Wii are selling, but there’ also heavily distributed.
3. Scarcity cuts two ways: scarcity of goods and scarcity of dollars in the pocket. Walmart will do well in this economy – Target, not as well.

By: CK

CK — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:00:48 +0000

@Alan: “I mean if that was my store, I’d have been out there with hot coffee and donuts for the people waiting– a small thank-you for being so loyal.”
Yup. I was talking this with my colleague yesterday…if it were my store? I’d offer cocoa and doughnuts (like CNN did on election night in Times Square) as well as offer the manufacturers whose goods are featured in the store, the opportunity to give something out (think cheap trinkets with branded logos). Why not leverage a captive crowd? Then again, they’d have to know that a crowd would be waiting. Thanks for explaining that the area of NY is high-crime.
@David: I keep saying this but I can’t even fathom that they kept going to shop. There are no words.

By: Alan Wolk

Alan Wolk — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:43:15 +0000

Just a little background from a native New Yorker: Green Acres, the mall where the incident occurred, while in middle-income Valley Stream is adjacent to a number of low-income, high-crime neighborhoods. It’s had a bad rep for many, many years.
This is something Wal-Mart should probably have been aware of and why a ticket system makes so much more sense. It also, we should note, makes customers feel better– they’re interacting with Wal-Mart from the minute they show up. Otherwise, it seems as if the store is ignoring them until the doors open.
I mean if that was my store, I’d have been out there with hot coffee and donuts for the people waiting– a small thank-you for being so loyal.
Legal culpability is a tricker question– we don’t know all the facts yet, so we can’t condemn them. (e.g. it’s possible that the local police said they were sending a dozen officers over, but never did. We just don’t know yet.)

By: David Berkowitz

David Berkowitz — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:57:15 +0000

Here’s the thing that gets me. You’re part of this mob that tramples someone to death. Did any one of them actually say, “Maybe the deal’s not worth it” and leave? Or did all the people who took part in this wind up walking out with a few hundred bucks off a TV? That’s just frightening.

By: CK

CK — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:32:42 +0000

@NWGuy: I, too, have been thinking about why some mob and others don’t. For instance, when the iPhone went on sale…with such a HUGE push to the launch…people were waiting outside for the doors to open–but there were no injuries, the crowds I talked to were just “stoked”. I’m not sure if WM has not reached out to the families (you’re right, they’re probably very surrounded by lawyers right now), or maybe they have and it’s confidential.
The only outreach I’ve seen is the news and that’s mainly been police feedback as I’ve only seen a statement from Walmart–perhaps they will talk to the community in the coming days, it’s a really good point. And I’m interested in what the direct community is thinking/feeling.
@Stuart: A memorial is a great idea; I’m not sure if they are doing that…though I’ve not heard/seen that. (I live in NY but not near the Walmart location)
@Danny: Agreed; thanks for talking this with me over at Twitter and for your good post on it.
@Shawn: I, too, have waited for concerts and events. In some cases it was general admission (so this is closer to the WM format) and security was everywhere to make sure everyone behaved. It was like a zero-tolerance rule; if you acted up, you’re out!
@Gianandrea and @Freedom Fountain: Yes, it’s tragically sad–both the incident and the deplorable message it sends.
@Lewis: Thanks. I can’t even begin to fathom what that mob was thinking–some psychologists say that “groupthink” is to blame. You and I have seen people raise their voices very loud online–but to remove doors and trample people? Unthinkable.

By: CK

CK — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:23:35 +0000

@Kevin: Marketing’s job is to create value for company and customer. Indeed, a BIG part of that is creating demand–we also want to provide value across quality, pricing, service, experience and, yes, safety (though one could argue that safety is nestled under experience). In this case, I am pointing the finger at Walmart because other big boxes like BestBuy didn’t report mobs/fatalities and injuries–and because this all could have been prevented by some simple security and/or ticketing measures.
Walmart is a king among retailers and has clocked a good bit of experience with mobs (just check out YouTube for various videos over the years) and so they know that when a crowd swells to 2,000 they’re putting their employees & customers (that demand we work so hard at creating) at risk.
While it may not technically be ‘marketing’s’ job to ensure the welfare of employees and customers, it’s certainly management’s. Why should a CMO be tentative when all they need to do is sync with management that, indeed, security measures will be taken on the “biggest” shopping day of the year? There will always be tragedies, I’m sad to say–look at what happened with the shooting at Toys R’ Us–but with the size of this crowd, this was foreseeable and preventable.
@Brett: I agree that the mob shares the blame and I don’t excuse them. News reports cite that police are currently checking the tapes to determine who should be charged (I wonder how difficult it is to detect whom all is responsible, besides the folks that took the doors off the hinges). Yep, cafeterias make lines work every day–so why couldn’t Walmart have made better lines and implemented better security since they saw the crowd swelling through the night? It’s irresponsible and confounds me.
And yes, it’s a very, very sad commentary on society as a whole–I just keep shaking my head at the story.

By: Lewis Green

Lewis Green — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:11:11 +0000

I vote with you CK. As a long-time concert goer, who has both been crushed and done some crushing, security and controlled lines held within physical boundaries are a must. Since being employed at concerts the risks of being hurt entering concert seating shows(non-reserved seats) have mostly eliminated the risks. Surely, someone at Wal-Mart could have figured this out without limiting first-come, first-served. On the other hand, what the heck is wrong with shoppers acting in such ways?

By: Kevin Horne

Kevin Horne — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:20:13 +0000

(corrected link)

By: Brett Duncan

Brett Duncan — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:19:36 +0000

1) Obviously Walmart is somewhat responsible, but not primarily. It was the shoppers who actually trampled the man. And I take issue with not placing blame on them just because you can’t prosecute the whole bunch. Prosecuting Walmart isn’t going to solve anything, either. The man and baby are dead.
With that said, it’s clearly a sad commentary on our culture as a whole, of which both these shoppers and Walmart are a part of. Yes, Walmart needs to know that these situations are “relatively” common on Black Friday and prepare accordingly, but at the end of the day this is just a sad case of humanity.
2) Ticketing is a good idea, but not mandatory. I mean, it’s a line. Thousands of cafeterias find a way to make them work every day.
3) Never really understood that statement anyway, so no, it’s not all good.

By: Kevin Horne

Kevin Horne — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:16:05 +0000

Marketing’s job is to create demand. It crossed way over the line many Black Friday’s ago – this is not the first time a “trampling” has occurred on a Black Friday or other promotion of scarce product.
But everything is OK in marketing until someone gets killed. Then everyone becomes a sage – they “told ya so” and they know exactly where to point the finger.
To place blame on one corporation or one store location is beyond the pale.
And now we get the discipline we couldn’t create by and for ourselves – lawsuits by the dozens and new Black Friday legislation that will make CMOs ever more tentative.
Chief Mob Officer, or Chief Marketing Officer?

By: FreedomFountain

FreedomFountain — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:14:39 +0000

What a tragic story! It is a story of desperation and greed, both of Walmart and the people in the crowd. So sad that people are driven to act like this and that stores are driven to these types of sales.

By: NWGuy

NWGuy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:08:38 +0000

This situation leaves me perplexed. The store does create a mob behavior but why do some mobs over-react and others don’t? This was one incident (there may have been 1-2 others?) in a nationwide shopping frenzy. How can a retailer or community know where the “tipping point” of a mob will hit?
Sorting out the legalities of this situation is even more difficult. Laws are likely not the source of “justice” in this case.
The two largely missing items is any empathy from the community or WalMart. My guess is that they are tempering legal risk but that is a flimsy curtain to hide behind.
The community in this location has many voices; city government, churches, local businesses, etc. Has there been any discussion or outreach? Is this a high-incident location? What does the community believe are appropriate standards of behavior?
It is also amazing that WM hasn’t reached out to the impacted families. The last statement on their site is from Friday, and it really doesn’t address the issue.
Public discussion of the store and the community will bring more to bear on this issue than legal enforcement.

By: gianandrea facchini

gianandrea facchini — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:27:08 +0000

my vote is the same as yours.
Personally I hate a lot of what happens lately. This economic situation is generated by greediness and this activity of the black friday is totally aligned with this greediness.

By: CK

CK — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:22:04 +0000

CNN just reported (around 10am) that the killed worker was actually working to protect a pregnant woman when he was trampled. Being it’s such a heroic act, I thought you folks would want to know of it.
As is still the case, none of this had to happen.

By: Danny Brown

Danny Brown — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:45:16 +0000

Completely agree with you, CK (as you know from our exchanges).
This was a sickening reminder that humanity has happily replaced caring and respect with greed and selfishness.
For sure Wal-Mart has to come under judicial action – there is no way that they can even pretend their security and crowd control measures were adequate.
Then again, a company that values its employees so little to start with probably cares even less about the law – as long as their fatcat pockets are full…

By: Shawn Collins

Shawn Collins — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:07:49 +0000

Aside from the fact that it would depress the frenzy when the doors opened, I can’t imagine why they don’t have a ticket system.
I used to sleep out all the time for concert tickets back in the 80s and the stores selling the tickets were distributing tickets back then, and then letting people in 10 at a time.
I think the customers and the retailers share blame here.

By: Stuart Foster

Stuart Foster — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:03:40 +0000

Wow. I am absolutely appalled that Wal-Mart does not have a memorial to the person that was killed inside their store…seems like the best way to avoid a PR nightmare…yet, they have done nothing. Although, given Walmart’s perceived arrogance and array of missteps…I guess the PR team was one of the first casualties in this downturn.