Comments on: Hiring Matters: What Veterans Can Do For You

By: Jim Stroup

Jim Stroup — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:58:48 +0000

Thank you, Cam, for this great post. You obviously come from a great Marine family, and I thank you for that, as well.
The country is becoming less and less familiar, directly or indirectly, with what life in the military means for those who serve and for the country, in general, due to the decades that have passed since we went to the all-voluntary force. So, vigilance and writing like yours is all the more important.
Thanks again, and Semper Fi!

By: Cam Beck

Cam Beck — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:41:25 +0000

Harry – Thank you for your input. It looks like you did alright for yourself. Congrats!
I agree with your sentiments about the value of military experience.
Also, I do not question the intent of the article, but rather some of the underlying assumptions. As I said, it appears the article was written in good faith, and the disrespect shown by the article was rather subtle, not overt. However, when I wrote the post, my frustration was with the sort of myths about military culture and leadership an article like that might perpetuate.
The responses I’ve received by many good folks here, over email, and at chaosscenario.com lead me to believe I have less reason to be frustrated than I originally thought.

By: Harry Hallman

Harry Hallman — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:07:50 +0000

Cam, I read that article but did not take it as disrespect to vets. I believe the intent of the article was to help vets to obtain civilian jobs. Yes there might have been a phase or 2 that they could have changed, but overall it seemed helpful to me. In fact, I wish I had that kind of help when I was re entering the “world” in 1966 after 4 years in the service. As you may remember in that era many people in the US were not as supportive of Vets as they are now.
The experience one gets in the military can be extremely beneficial to potential employers and we as job seekers must be able to explain that in a way they will understand. As employers we are well advised to seek out vets and give them an opportunity. I know that I learned a lot and was far better off for being in the military than I would have been if I did not have that experience. I believe it helped immensely me in my career.

By: Jennifer R.

Jennifer R. — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:27:53 +0000

As a military fiancee, I thank you for this response to the article, which I read the other day. Preconceived assumptions abound in hiring, unfortunately. Fresh out of grad school with my M.A. in English I was told by numerous business firms in interviews “Why aren’t you teaching?” Which left me with the thought (unvoiced) “If I was looking to be a teacher would I be applying here?”
I once worked with a manager in retail who said that he was thrilled at the opportunity to hire people with military expertise. I’m glad you personally share that mindset and hope more employers will do the same. Stereotypes in general are not helpful.

By: Cam Beck

Cam Beck — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:18:49 +0000

Paul and Claire – Thank you for your insight. I’ve gotten some feedback from others like you who have given me hope that the stereotypes given an audience in the MSNBC article isn’t at all universal. That is very nice to hear.
Lewis – I wouldn’t know anything about speaking my mind. Nope. No idea.
David – I had an interesting discussion with some colleagues a few months ago. My position was that a particular organization should solicit specific types of feedback from several highly talented rank-and-file employees to help shape the future of the organization, as they have strong potential to one day lead the organization. They disagreed, saying that those employees will and ought to do exactly as they’re told.
Without going too deeply into the virtues of employee buy-in, I will mention that the one of the stated goals of Marine Corps leadership is to build and train future leaders. This applies not only directly to their jobs in the military, but also to their lives outside of it.
Clearly, everyone doesn’t have the same experience, but organizations that set high expectations for their employees tend to help them develop more.
Notably, one of the employees whose advice I said should have been solicited has since been promoted to a leadership role within the organization.
Gannon – Thank you for weighing in. I also enjoyed your post on the same article. As I told you on the phone, there are so many angles from which one can look at the subject, it’s tough to tackle them all in a single article.

By: Gannon Beck

Gannon Beck — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:11:36 +0000

“Apparently, in business, former members of the military are often typecast as perpetually angry people who manage as authoritarians and can get people to do what they want only through yelling and the threat of force.”
I think this is because many people get their information about the military from movies like, “Full Metal Jacket,” and don’t understand the depth and breadth of leadership training in the service. Aside from these stereotypes being inaccurate, the lack of understanding about leadership training can result in discriminatory practices, so I thank you for shedding light on the subject.

By: David Reich

David Reich — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:26:04 +0000

I think cam and Lewis nailed it as to how vets bring a sense of loyalty and the hard work ethic to a business. Of course, there are the stereotypes that get in the way — are they just order-takers who follow blindly, etc. These are old stereotypes that are hard to change.
It comes down to what a business wants in its employees. Some want leaders; some want those who just do what they’re told. You’ll find both types of people among vets and among the general population.

By: Lewis Green

Lewis Green — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:47:23 +0000

Cam,
When I was in the corporate world here is what I observed. As a communications/marketing/PR professional, most of those I worked with were more than happy to go along to get along. They were smart and good at their work but seldom expressed differences with the department’s leaders, except behind their backs.
Veterans often speak their minds, and as one of those departmental leaders, I often expressed my passion in straight-foward language and left the warm and fuzzies to others. I stood out in the group. The first two years I was considered the best and the brightest. The next two years (four years was my average lifespan in any corporate job), I was considered loud.
The tone of my voice hadn’t changed. But because speaking our minds requires others to think, and often do more work, some aren’t into that. They prefer putting in their nine hours as easily as possible, without rippling any waters.
I think veterans bring a sense of loyalty to a business and its goals, and are about being the best we can be. Good for business, bad for those working for a check.
P.S. There are more than a few non-veterans who approach business the same way. We veterans aren’t the only ones striving for perfection. The non-veterans received the same treatment as I. Too many in corporations are their for the security, the pay and the benefits and are willing to play the political games required to survive that environment. I think most veterans, especially the enlisted ranks as compared to the officer corps, hate political gaming.

By: Claire Ratushny

Claire Ratushny — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:38:51 +0000

Hi Cam,
Thank you for your eloquent and heartfelt post. And thank you for your service to our country. A great many of us appreciate the sacrifices of our military and their families.
I agree with your assessment of the great value veterans bring to business. To what you have written, I would also add that companies would benefit immensely from the demonstrated self discipline of our veterans. This is sorely lacking in our society and workplaces today. Secondly, the team work, camaraderie, respect and loyalty veterans bring to companies, would make inspiring examples for everyone else to follow.
Keep on fighting the good fight, Cam. You’re right in what you are saying and doing.

By: Paul Barsch

Paul Barsch — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:17:15 +0000

Cam, I have a buddy at a company that tries to actively hire from the military because he gets candidates that have sharp minds, display leadership, and can think quickly on their feet. All essential traits for success in business.