In the past few months, I’ve seen a pair of perfect examples of what can happen when marketers take the time to join and empower their communities….
One example came from a maker of scissors that empowered their community, and an unsigned band on MySpace that joined theirs. What intrigued me about these two cases was that, in both instances, the people responsible for these excellent marketing campaigns, are convinced that… they aren’t marketing.
Fiskars worked with South Carolina agency Brains on Fire to create a ‘customer evangelist’ program for their Fiskars scissors. The agency identified community members that were avid scrapbookers, and who were passionate about Fiskars products.
Brains on Fire then empowered these customer evangelists, by creating an online community called ‘The Fiskateers’. On this site, the 4 ‘Fiskateers’ give fellow community members scrapbooking advice via a blog, and share stories about their hobby.
As Spike Jones from Brains on Fire explains:
Now …. unprompted …. these passionate advocates are creating their own marketing tools. They are stepping up and taking ownership in an international brand. They are personalizing something that used to be institutionalized. And they are coming up with ideas that the brand …. or even (gasp!) Brains on Fire wouldn’t have thought of.
And I’m in awe.
It started with a company that was willing to gain more power in its industry by giving it away.
And this is just the beginning for them.
When I read about the creation of The Fiskateers, I immediately recognized it as a perfect example of the idea I had already been blogging about, which was the need for marketers to empower their communities to market for them. When I blogged about the story of how The Fiskateers were created at The Viral Garden, Spike left a very interesting comment to my post. He said, “And the more I think about it, the more I have a hard time even trying to fit this movement into the “marketing” bucket. It seems like it needs to be called something else.”
But what?
Earlier this year, I heard the story of an unsigned band on MySpace called The Favorites. As lead singer Jeremy Botter explains:
When we first started doing this thing and were making decisions about how we wanted to get our music out there, I knew that we wanted to use alternative distribution methods. Yes, we want to get a record deal, but the record deal is not the be-all-end-all for us.
“Instead of ‘marketing’ to ‘fans,’ we just stayed in contact and tried to turn each listener into a friend, a friend that could then join our little community and give us feedback on our music. We created a band policy to personally respond to each email and MySpace message that is sent to us, no matter how many we recieve per day and no matter how childish the message may be. My view is that if we listen to the community, then we can better understand what our community as a whole likes to hear, what they like to see, and then we can tailor ourselves to that a little bit. It’s not about creating more fans or holding market shares; it’s about a love of music and a connection via that love of music with people who will support you no matter what the cost.
“We started doing the community thing about six months ago, and the ‘results’ have been fabulous. We’ve yet to play a single show under our new band name and haven’t played a show together at all in almost five years, but we’re still on the top ten of unsigned artists every single day on MySpace.”
But this quote from Jeremy really stood out: “The truth is, we’re not marketing.”
Here Spike and Jeremy were both playing very active roles in creating something that many of us would consider to be marketing at its finest, but both gentlemen are convinced that they are doing anything but.
Perhaps they are right. Are The Fiskateers marketing Fiskars products to the scrapbooking community, or sharing their love of their favorite hobby with other enthusiasts? Are The Favorites marketing their music to their fans, or sharing their love of their music with their community?
At its most basic form, most of us consider marketing to be anything that helps facilitate a product being sold. In technical terms, both of the above examples would qualify as ‘marketing’.
Perhaps the reason why Spike and Jeremy are hesitant to label these campaigns as ‘marketing’ may be because in both cases, these initiatives seem to benefit the community, moreso than sell more products for Fiskars and The Favorites.
Maybe that’s the key to creating great marketing… finding a way to put the wants and needs of your community on an even or higher plane than your own?
Technorati tags: marketing community Fiskateers The Favorites Brains on Fire MySpace customer evangelists
These are wonderful examples of companies and brands listening to their customers(friends) and tailoring their product accordingly. As the marketing director for my wife’s photography business, I would love for our clients to tell us what they want. Their own ideas are the ones they’re most likely to buy. Maybe I’ll start a sub-blog for repeat customers only. Hmmmmmm.
“Their own ideas are the ones they’re most likely to buy.”
Exactly Parley. And another key is, they are MUCH more likely to buy from ANOTHER MEMBER OF THEIR COMMUNITY! Why the Fiskateers work so well is because the community of scrapbookers are ‘marketing’ to themselves. The Favorites are having such success because they are marketing to the same community that they are members of.
Two great examples that prove the value of empowering and joining your community of customers. Perhaps Jeremy and Spike or someone from Fiskars can chime in with more background on both examples.
Thought provoking posting here Mack!
When you pose the question that marketing might be maturing to a place where professional marketers put the wants and needs of their community on an even or higher plane than their own – you really hit on chord with me.
Two professionals convinced they are not marketing reminds me of sales professionals that I have heard insist, “I don’t sell”.
Underlying all of this is the desire to disassociate with sales and marketing. Why?
Is it because the way we have done sales and marketing in the past has been manipulative? Dishonoring? Deceitful?
But when you are part of the community do you really want to manipulate, dishonor or deceive fellow members of the society you belong to?
How long will the community survive if you do?
“Underlying all of this is the desire to disassociate with sales and marketing. Why?”
I’m not sure if it’s that Jeremy and Spike want to ‘disassociate’ themselves from sales and marketing(And that might not be your implication), but rather that to them, what they are doing doesn’t SEEM like sales and marketing.
I think the reason why, is because for both of these examples, increasing sales is NOT the main focus, but rather an ancillary affect. That’s a pretty big and scary shift in thinking for most companies to make. To go from ‘we are doing this to increase sales’ to ‘we are doing this for the benefit of our community’ with the understanding that it MAY increase sales, isn’t something that very many companies are willing to try.
But when you are willing to share control of your marketing message with your community, magic can happen. Thanks for the input Mike!
Another great one Mack.
I totally understand all of this, since it is essentially how I got going with the Masiguy blog. I knew I needed to do something to reach the audience, but it very quickly developed into more of a place for my passion not only for the brand, but for the sport and culture of cycling. It’s fairly rare these days that I plug the product at all.
Community is the key and it doesn’t look or smell like traditional marketing. It is something that took me a while to begin to understand and why I’ve routinely said that I don’t consider myself a marketer or marketing person.
This stuff really excites me though, similarly to you and your passion for community.
“I knew I needed to do something to reach the audience, but it very quickly developed into more of a place for my passion not only for the brand, but for the sport and culture of cycling. It’s fairly rare these days that I plug the product at all.”
And yet what you are doing is still far more effective than ‘traditional marketing’. What’s really going to be amazing is when a company makes a POINT of finding all the Tim Jacksons they have in their community, and gives them a similar stage to share their passion of their sport, and products. I think the reason why so many companies don’t do this is because they can’t ‘quantify’ the affect on the bottom line of empowering passionate community members. They feel that until they can find a formula that lets them plug in numbers and spit out a change in the bottom line, that embracing and empowering their community really doesn’t make ‘fiscal’ sense.
But the ‘work’ you and Spike and Jeremy are doing proves that this type of ‘untraditional marketing’ works wonders.
I think you hit on a great point here, Mack. The best marketing should be unnoticed because people should be able to integrate it into whatever they’re doing seamlessly. That’s a sign of an authentic message and ensures that any word-of-mouth generated by it is authentic.
Another very interesting post Mack and one that couldn’t have been timed better from my perspective.
I have over the past few months grown into a huge Seth Godin fan and having read Purple Cow and the Big Moo I am now going through Unleashing the Ideavirus which as you know was written a few years ago. What has already struck a chord with me is his statement “the future belongs to marketers who establish a foundation and process where interested people can market to each other. Ignite consumer networks and then get out of the way and let them talk”
I am in the process of building such a community online membership where this idea is at its heart …. will it work? Only those that join and participate will know. It’s just up to me to create the environment for them to want to participate and interact with each other.
“the future belongs to marketers who establish a foundation and process where interested people can market to each other. Ignite consumer networks and then get out of the way and let them talk”
Just kidding. But this is exactly what Fiskars did, they identified and found the people in their community that were ALREADY marketing their products for them, and empowered them to reach other community members.
That’s a great point, but of course Seth is just copying my ‘Empowering Your Community’ idea
Ideally, joining your community is the best move of all, because that gives you the truest understanding of your customers, and this move causes your wants and needs to slowly merge with those of your community. But many companies are scared to death of such a move, so they resist. But there’s NO excuse for ANY company to not identify their community members that are already marketing for them, and to empower them to reach as many community members as possible, and as effectively as possible.
Does the best marketing go unnoticed? I’d say no. Do the best MARKETERS go unnoticed? Unequivocally YES!!! (Craig Daitch where art thou?)
Michael,
I don’t think it’s so much that we are trying to dissociate ourselves with “marketing,” but trying to reinvent it. The problem with that word is that it means so many different things to so many different people. And it’s part of that old school terminology that includes words like target and campaign. It’s a Tired vocabulary–
Mack,
I think it’s important to point out that the Fiskateers is also an off-line movement. The four main Fiskateers show up at local scrapbooking stores to teach “make and takes” and establish relationships with the storeowners in a completely non-sales rep way. They go to the national shows (one of them was even asked for her autograph at the last one). We had one Fiskateer report back to HQ that when she visited a store, she saw that one of the papers on display was curling up. Fiskars literally stopped the presses to rework the papers and was able to save a lot of money and time because of it.
Also, in the vein of offline, Fiskateers (will) receive a welcome kit via snail mail; get invited to exclusive events; have the opportunity to network amongst themselves; and give feedback on product developments.
It’s a lot easier to set up an online community these days. But we fundamentally believe that it must have an offline component to really bring it home and make it personal.
The movement is barely two months old, and already it has exceeded the goals that we put in place for the end of the year.
Thanks Spike, that’s why I wanted you to comment, because I had a feeling there was more to this story. I had no idea about the offline portion of this campaign, that makes it even more impressive.
And it’s only 2 months old? Wow.
Spike/ Mack; I am 100% behind the “offline” component. I am a very big advocate of the blogging/ online factors, but the personal touch is the element that always seals the deal. For all the work I do with my blogging efforts, I feel like I make a much greater impact when I show up in person to shake hands and kiss babies. When I talk to a retailer face to face, or attend a consumer event, I know I am doing more than the blog-only approach can accomplish.
Thanks for sharing that insight Spike.
Thanks for the mention.
Our goal with the band from the beginning, at least from a “marketing” perspective, was not to market to our fans, and really not to treat them as fans at all.
I’m a gigantic music nerd. I love pretty much all forms of music, with the exception of current country because it’s just bad. So our goal was to create relationships with people who loved music as much as we do, and form a community around that. We basically create the kind of music we enjoy listening to, and connect with people who like the same things.
Basically, we don’t want to talk down to our fans. We’d rather just engage with them and talk to them, and it’s been amazingly effective in creating a community.
I think it’s just better to have a community than a fanbase.
Mack,
As one of the four “founding” Fiskateers, I have to say I was nervous, at first, that we would become glorified sales reps for Fiskars. One point that was made perfectly clear to us is that we are crafters first, employees second. We are never to compromise our crafting to fit their wants and needs. We are encouraged to be true to ourselves and just talk about our lives, mostly, but also about scrapping. In all honesty, only 20-25% of my posts are about scrapping, with some not even mentioning a Fiskars-owned brand. And, the great thing is, there is no pressure to do so! We GET to go to crops and do make-n-takes, try new products, have our thoughts and ideas taken seriously, and engage people in meaningful conversations about life and scrapping. For a scrapper, it is a dream job and for those who are sharing the experience online and off, it is fun, exciting and full of giveaways, demos, and prizes. They, Fiskars and the team at BOF, have empowered us to be transparent and honest about who we are and what we do, so that we never have to feel like salespeople. Trust me, if the day comes where I am schlepping products to sell, the movement is over and so am I… This truly is a movement of devoted crafters just wanting to have fun and share their love.
It’s so interesting for me to read through all this. I’m just a crafter who’s found her calling. And my phone won’t stop ringing. Store owners and consumers are so happy to see us, and the blog keeps them connected.
Seeing marketing folks talking about us blows my mind, but I try not to think about it or let the scale of this thing get into my brain. Back to booking my 5 state tour I’m doing next month… yes. A crafting tour.
Wow, Mack, you really got a great dialog going on with this post. Talk about your beloved “community”! Wow!
Spike, Jeremy, Stephenie and May- thank you all for coming to this party and sharing your thoughts and visions. On a very, very selfish level, it validates everything I have been doing in my own efforts. You are all talking about doing the same things that I do (or try to) and the same premise that I have been working with, but because it was a concept that I ran with on my own I never embraced it as being “smart” or “relevant” until I began to read more about other folks doing similar things. To me, it just seemed like common sense, so I thought “how could it be right or actually work if it is this simple?”
Spike’s comments about movements needing time to grow is one of the most important in this dialog, I think. Nothing good ever happens instantly. Allowing time for seeds to sprout from the soil and for the plant to bear fruit is difficult for a lot of marketers or companies… but that is what success needs.
Sorry for the ramble…
If there was ever a case of input from commenters making the post, this is it. So many great quotes, here’s a few that stuck out to me:
From Stephenie: “One point that was made perfectly clear to us is that we are crafters first, employees second. We are never to compromise our crafting to fit their wants and needs. We are encouraged to be true to ourselves and just talk about our lives, mostly, but also about scrapping.”
Bingo. This shows that BoF and Fiskars wanted this movement to be AUTHENTIC. That’s the key, it is SO difficult for companies to willingly put the wants and needs of the community first, but Fiskars was brave enough to do that here, and I think that’s a big reason why The Fiskateers is having the success that it is.
May adds: “Seeing marketing folks talking about us blows my mind”.
I think The Fiskateers is going to be a case-study for effective marketing moving forward. Fiskars found passionate community members and empowered them to market for them. Actually the ‘marketing’ is indirect at best. As Stephenie said, The Fiskateers are really just blogging about their lives. In doing so, Fiskars and their products do get some ancillary promotion. But the key again is, it’s authentic. This isn’t a commercial, it’s honest communication.
This is the way smart companies are going to have to go moving forward, because communities are now smart enough to tell an advertisement from an attempt to communicate.
Finally, Jeremy brings it all home with this: “I think it’s just better to have a community than a fanbase.”.
Amen. For companies, you can substitute the word ‘customers’ for ‘fanbase’. The idea is, KNOW the people that are buying your product. Talk to them, let their feedback shape your processes, and let YOUR feedback help them better understand how you are marketing to them.
Fiskars gets this. Other companies better be paying attention, because the future is staring them in the face.
I actually meant to talk about this yesterday, but I forgot.
We self-released our EP as a podcast, for free. Each song was a different “show” and subscribers automatically had the album downloaded, piece by piece, when we released it. Blogs picked it up, the tech community picked it up, and to date we have passed 10,000 downloads of the ENTIRE album.
The response was so strong that we’ve decided to expand the EP to ten songs and release a full album, featuring remixed and reworked versions of the songs on the EP. We’re going to try something relatively new and have “beta testing” for our new songs and new versions of old songs. Subscribers to our new RSS feed (which will have all our old subscribers plus new ones, once we announce the service and where we’re hosting it) will get these “beta” versions (demos, really) of the songs, and we’re going to set up a feedback section on our site for people to give us their ideas on how to make the album better. We really want to craft this thing so that people have a hand in it, because if the people who listen to us can give us feedback that will make them want to listen to our music more, then we feel the album will be stronger as a whole. And besides, there’s the whole community thing; people around the world will have had a hand in the creation of this record when it’s all said and done, and to me that’s a pretty amazing thing.
I guess this is marketing, but it doesn’t feel like it. If anything, it feels more like Tara Hunt’s Pinko Marketing concept. I don’t want to talk AT listeners, I want to talk WITH them and listen to them. I have these music discussions with friends all the time. We talk about what we would have done differently or why the mix sounds like crap or why the guitar parts sound too cheesy or loud. If we can get that kind of feedback from people, I think our music will be stronger as a whole.
I have no idea if any of this is going to work or not, but it sounds like a better way of going about things than just releasing an album and expecting people to pay $15 for it.
Jeremy, that’s an awesome concept and I can’t wait to see more of it. You are making great strides in crafting something that is “bigger than you”, but still a part of you. That’s amazing.
I agree Mack. Great dialog here… wow.
“We’re going to try something relatively new and have “beta testing” for our new songs and new versions of old songs. Subscribers to our new RSS feed (which will have all our old subscribers plus new ones, once we announce the service and where we’re hosting it) will get these “beta” versions (demos, really) of the songs, and we’re going to set up a feedback section on our site for people to give us their ideas on how to make the album better.”
Very interesting. BTW here’s something, we keep hearing hints at how the ‘buzz’ over MySpace may be fading, are you seeing any shift in response from your MySpace community more toward your website, or not?
Hey Mack
I just wrote about a band called Anberlin that’s doing something similar with the “beta testing.” They’re already signed, but still putting these things into practice.
Good post.
Mack,
This idea of marketing that doesn’t seem like marketing is called “marketing without fingerprints” by the folks at Maker’s Mark Bourbon. We interviewed the Maker’s Mark CEO earlier this year for our podcast and he talks about their 250,000 strong Ambassador program. He explains that the program helps to authentically embrace their fans in way that doesn’t look like the marketing department had their hands all over it.
Jackie thanks for the heads-up about the podcast, here is the link for everyone else:
While I love the ‘we aren’t marketing’ idea behind The Favorites and The Fiskateers (and I absolutely LOVE how passionate the Fiskateers are about this movement), I think there’s maybe a bigger issue here, and one I’m not going to go into now, but will with my next post here at DF.
http://www.conferencecallsunlimited.com/podcast/ChurchoftheCustomer/ChurchoftheCustomer-01-10-06.mp3
Great podcast, loved the ‘A-Team’ story
Agreed, Mack — great podcast, Jackie. Thanks for flagging it. You guys do a great job with podcast production — and the content was really interesting. Great story there.
And Mack….nice teaser for your next post! : )