I recently received an e-mail from one of my Marketing Minute readers. I think the honest fear he expressed is one that most of us had entertained more than once. With his permission, I’d like to share it with you and get your thoughts.
Here’s a paraphrased version of what he asked.
AM I GETTING TOO OLD?
As a 43-year-old marketing director, how do I stay in touch with a target market of 18-30 year olds? As we get older, how we practice marketing and stay current?
Here are some things that triggered this email:
1) I started a local Marketing Group about 4 months ago. Attendance at our meetings has really grown. However, as I look around the room, I might be the oldest one in the room. I’m starting to feel like a dinosaur.
2) I had suggested that we get an outsider’s perspective on some ideas we’re kicking around at work, so we invited 4 members from this marketing group to our place of business to act as a focus group. Our executive staff pitched some ideas to them and asked for reactions.
After the meeting the several of the staff in our company were commenting on the good questions that were being asked and the insightful comments that had been made from the marketing panel. Now I’m starting to feel insecure. And then they started commenting on how young they all looked.
3) Then my boss makes the comment that he realizes our staff is getting older and what we think is cool might not necessarily be so in the real world.
Am I freaking out unnecessarily?
What do you think? Can we age out? Be honest – do you worry about becoming obsolete? After all, our world is changing faster than the speed of light. Are we sure we can keep up?
I’ll share my answer to my reader’s e-mail but first, I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Nonsense! Why do you feel that wrinkles on your face equates to wrinkles on your brain? I’m 69 and coach, counsel and help the Gen X, Gen Y and Millennial generations understand and use technology as well as actively promote my various web sites using Web 2.0, SEO, SEM and SMO concepts.
Flaunt your age, experience and wisdom – don’t hide. it.
I think the lesson here is to avoid obsolescence by maintaining a constant state of curiosity. As long as you’re not too old to learn, you’re not too old for marketing.
Drew — As you know, I’m hypersensitive to this topic because my birthday is this week — yeah, 29 AGAIN (!) — and I’m more consumed than usual with the process of aging as individuals (and as generations).
I honestly don’t worry about being obsolete. I’ve noticed that those who truly *are* dinosaurs are those people who have stopped being interested in and curious about new developments, perspectives, technologies, and so on. They get the mindset that the “new” stuff is unnecessary, or silly, doesn’t apply to them, or whatever… and that’s when they start to get old, in my mind. Haven’t we all met older individuals who really do seem old, while others maintain an element of inner youth?
That being said, I do think it’s challenging for professionals who are creeping towards 40… or 50… or 60… or whatever… NOT to listen to their “inner dinosaur” voice. It’s hard to be in a room and realize you are the oldest person there. It’s sobering to realize that a colleague could technically be your child (!), which happened to me recently (ok, but she was 22!). But of course, that inner dinosaur voice is not your friend — you have to shut that voice up.
In fact, strangle the life out of it, and stomp it to a pulp.
When I first started in kids marketing I was worried about the same things. But then you realise that you can get in touch with what you were thinking as a kid at various ages … and these are pretty much universal. BUT there are differences in the manifestations of your desires/fears/dreams … so the challenge is to take the emotional resonance and activate it in an appropriate way.
Of course we can age out. It’s called myopia. And it can happen at 25 or 55.
.
The beauty of marketing–and why I went into this profession–is because markets are always in flux. So you’re living in the constant tension of keeping up and staying ahead.
I love it. Then again, I love living in the constant tension that is NYC.
I swear both my discipline and my city keep me young…or keep me from thinking about age.
But I will say this, as it’s been concerning me: I’ve been giving some of my friends (friends who are also colleagues) a “talking to” because they’re ignoring 2.0. I just keep saying “What, you think marketing stopped at 1.0? Have we really gotten to the age where we simply stop learning new things? Say it ain’t so.”
I think it bugs them, but it’s an effective nudge. Can’t let my friends get old on me
Great post.
Stumbled on this from Jason Alba:
Getting Too Old? Dye Your Hair Before the Interview!
http://www.jibberjobber.com/blog/archives/965
Bill,
I think the difference is — what we use to natively know because we were the generation is now shifted to having to want to know, because we are no longer “the” generation.
You make a good point — we can also leverage our years of experience.
Which makes for a pretty compelling combination.
Drew
Cam,
“As you’re not too old to learn, you’re not too old for marketing.”
Amen. That was in essence my e-mail back to him, but of course I took 3 paragraphs to say what you did in about 13 words!”
So….how do you stay curious and how do you stay connected with what you need to learn?
Drew
Ann,
That’s an important element of this discussion I think — to not dismiss what is new.
It’s one thing to be curious about it but it’s another thing to give it the benefit of the doubt. To assume it does have merit, as opposed to dismissing it.
Do you think that’s just inherent in someone’s genes or can that attitude be learned?
Drew
A key to not “aging out” is to stay open to new things, remain curious and eager to learn, and be flexible.
It also helps to think young — or youthful. I have friends and hang out at times with people 20 – 25 years my junior. I don’t view them as kids, but as equals or contemporaries. We may not like the same music, but there are many other ways to connect.
Gavin,
You’re right of course — we can all reach back to our past and remember what mattered and how we felt back then.
I think the bigger challenge is wrapping your arms around not only the new technologies/tools but how they are becoming a part of the cultural pattern.
Having a firm and confident grasp of where those two things intersect is a daunting proposition.
Not that it can’t be done. But we do have to stay limber to keep up, I believe.
Drew
CK,
We live in a profession, I think, that demands constant curiosity. We have to be willing to poke and prod at something new.
It’s one of the things I love about our field — we have permission to experiment, play, test drive and sample all that’s new out there.
I also think, just like a 25 year old who is trying to market to retirees in their 70’s — it’s okay not to know.
The trick isn’t knowing it all, it’s being willing to learn a little something about it all.
Drew
We have “generation gap” moments for sure at our firm – with age differences of 25 years.
“So what!” we say. We like a variety of perspectives. And we know creativity is ageless.
Here’s an interesting point of view:
http://creatingminds.org/articles/age.htm
I particularly like the reference to “habitual ossification” as a “trap of adulthood.”
We are all products.
The best marketers know this.
Age is irrelevant. Culture is.
Even a poor kid from the ghetto can innovate marketing as well or better than a trained professional.
Great marketing starts with trusting your intuition.
How can old age crush curiosity?
Waining appreciation for pace the world changes.
Ghetto Gates is on the rise…
This is a really great, thoughtful discussion… thanks all of you for participating, and to Drew for writing and moderating!
Drew wrote: “I think the difference is — what we use to natively know because we were the generation is now shifted to having to want to know, because we are no longer ‘the’ generation.”
…which is an interesting shift for those who start to have co-workers they think of as “kids,” like your 43-year-old friend, above. I think his generation, which is also mine, has a harder time making that shift than previous generations.
David,
I think you are right in terms of mingling with people of all ages.
What better way to learn what matters to someone 20 years your senior or junior?
Drew
Gwyneth,
Thanks for sharing that excellent article! I think a lot of what we’re talking about is within our own control.
We can put boundaries around what we’re capable of or decide not to.
Drew
Ghetto,
You express your ideas like poetry. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Drew
Ann,
Why do you think this 40-50 something generation is struggling with the the shift of being the “older pack” within the work place?
Is there something about that generation (which is mine as well) that makes it more of a struggle?
Drew
Even if the latter shift towards Web 2.0 is more disruptive than ever, I think that this sense of being too old was a constant factor in the world.
You are all english mother tongue but just imagine when the world got more open and a lot of respectful managers in Italy simply do not know a single word of English. And when the first processor got into our world (the first IBM or the software Symphony). To me it is just a matter of keeping evolving. Indeed is easier for the new kids on the block but experience is a priceless base for developing and using appropriately the new technology.
I forget to say:
Brin and Page are the engine of Google and are very young but at the driver seat there is Eric Schmidt who is 52.
This is a funny conversation because it seems to assume that curiousity, intellectual ability, empathy, ability to process data, creative skills and sensory reception dims either with age or with distance (in age) between marketers and target customers. IMHO its just the opposite; age, experience and marketing savvy increase with age assuming you are paying attention and you aren’t locked into an intellectual paradigm that restricts your world view.
The key to effective marketing is to understand the drivers of customer interest and behavior and to position your brand and craft messages that will resonate with customers and prospects. The process has little to do with age and has everything to do with sensibility, sensitivity, mindset, discipline, skill and judgment.
Excellent discussion! I echo the thoughts on here that this has a lot less to do with age, and more to do with being in touch with what’s going on. I love to read Bill Vick’s tweets, as he seems to be more “in touch” with technology than most people that are on twitter.
I think the scary thing, though, is the age question as it relates to job/career transitions! Thanks Ann, for linking to my post, which has very interesting comments/discussion about age discrimination, which really sucks because someone looks at you and makes an initial judgment which can have more impact on whether you get the job than your ability to perform.
So, age = performance? No, not tied together (although hopefully we all get wiser as we get older!). But prejudice is alive out there, and that’s when this really becomes an issue
Gia –
You are right — our experience (or at least mine at 44) becomes the foundation of common senses and lessons learned that I can catapult over whatever this new world is going to toss at me!
Drew
Danny,
I don’t think it assumes anything other than…as we age, we run the risk of losing touch with cutting edge technologies, trends and cultural shifts.
I think the message that is coming through loud and clear is that we must CHOOSE to stay current. Otherwise, by default, we won’t.
If I didn’t choose to play with Twitter, Facebook, etc — I’d be out of touch pretty quick.
Drew
Jason,
You bring up a good nuance of this discussion — reality versus perception/prejudice.
And maybe the most debilitating prejudice of all is when we judge ourselves by our age?
Drew
Very interesting post Drew.
As you know, I work on the ad agency side, in the creative department and age discrimination is rampant. I mean it’s rare to see anyone over 40, let alone 50, in a creative job.
Part of that is people’s own doings: they get caught in a trap, don’t want to learn, don’t make the effort to keep up with the world around them. Forget 2.0, they’re not even caught up on 1.0. And they’re not particularly concerned.
Another factor, one no one’s mentioned is money. Senior people make more money. And companies- be they ad agencies or corporate marketing departments- realize that they can pay a 30 year old half what they pay a 50 year old and get the same work out of them. They ignore the years of experience the 50 year old may bring to the party and focus on the numbers instead. (Also, if you fire someone to hire someone cheaper, you can avoid any sort of age discrimination lawsuit by claiming it was a business decision)
The other reason for this short-sightedness is one of my favorite shibboleths: Not Everyone Is An Upsale 30Something White Male Hipster. There’s a whole giant generation (the Boomers) who are 50 and up and just who do companies think is going to market to them? The emphasis on youth is why so much advertising sounds the same: it’s written by the same group of people
@Ann: I think the reason our generation is so sensitive to this (and you and I are around the same age) is that we are either the vanguard of Gen X or the very tail end of the Baby Boom. Either way, we’ve spent our whole lives being “the kids” to the giant Boomer cohort. We missed Woodstock and all the other defining elements of that generation because we were too young and to suddenly be on the other side, to be the big kids, is definitely weird.
@Drew again: I hope you told him that dying his hair didn’t fool anyone. A 50-ish man with no gray in his hair looks like… a 50 year old man with a dye job. And that sort of insecurity with who he was would be the first thing I’d pick up on.
I agree that aging doesn’t make you obsolete in the sense that you can always be in touch with methods of marketing, simply by being curious;
however, I would argue that actual messaging, in regards to tone and humor specifically, might be better left to marketing associates closer in age to your target audience.
There are simply some cultural movements in those areas that you cannot understand unless you are a part of them.
Just a little addition to this really interesting discusssion.
I’m *only* 25 and I often feel like I’m out of the picture as well. It’s incredible how quickly new trends become obsolete so, even at 25, I can have some trouble.
It’s so true that it’s all about being curious. I have friends and colleagues of the same age who know nothing about ‘pop culture’ and those who are 20 or 30 years older who are more savvy than I am.
Not much can beat experience. To all those who’re thinking they’re too old: Just imagine you’re the young person in an office being faced with a new recruit who has 20 years more experience. Now who’s intimidated?!
There must be something in the water on this topic!
I just wrote about this a little while ago (http://ivanastaylor.typepad.com/strategystew1/2007/10/3-things-you-ca.html)
I concurr with so many of you that say that getting old has more to do with your attitude than with your age. In fact, what a blessing to have age, experience and wisdom coupled with the ongoing desire to learn and experience new things. As marketers we have the opportunity to continue exploring and having fun with all the new and exciting trends that surround us.
Toad, (Tangerine? TT?)
Every point you make is a valid one. There are plenty of external messages being shot at the over 40 crowd that suggest, especially in traditional agency roles — that they’re not as welcome anymore.
Do you see that as much on the strategic side? I find it fascinating that we would dismiss someone on the creative side but let the same aged old fart dictate the strategy. Which, at least in theory, should direct the creative.
Have you ever personally faced this demon of self-doubt? Have you wondered if you should hang up your hat? If so, how did you put yourself back on the path? If not, especially existing in an agency — how did you ward it off?
Drew
Jennifer,
“however, I would argue that actual messaging, in regards to tone and humor specifically, might be better left to marketing associates closer in age to your target audience.”
Hmm. Talk a little more about that if you will.
In my 20+ year career as a copywriter, I have assumed the persona of a 7 year old child, a very hip 16 year old (had to write a rap), a 35 year old mom (a project for Better Homes & Gardens & Kraft) and a 55+ man.
I always thought that was just my job. To know those people, their hearts and needs…and to write authentically from that place.
Drew
Jill (in the box),
Thanks for adding a different voice to the discussion.
I hadn’t thought about how everyone, not just the over 40 crowd, must be feeling in reaction to the overwhelming speed of change we are all experiencing.
So, many you can teach us old dogs some new tricks. How do YOU keep current?
Drew
Ivana,
Well, one way to recognize a trend is to see if popping up in all kinds of different discussions.
Apparently, we are sitting right on top of a trend!
Your post had some good ideas for how to stay current. I think a big one is simply deciding that you want to. There’s certainly no limit to the amount of new things to learn or places to learn about them.
But you do have to be ready to put your toe in the water!
Drew
“In my 20+ year career as a copywriter, I have assumed the persona of a 7 year old child, a very hip 16 year old (had to write a rap), a 35 year old mom (a project for Better Homes & Gardens & Kraft) and a 55+ man”.
Allow me to comment without meaning to offend. Yes, you may have done all this.. and yes, your clients might have agreed it was a success – but I’m dying to know what the actual 16 year olds thought of your rap!
Did you conduct any trial runs on panels of 16 year olds before going live?
I don’t think you’re far off. I’m only 29 and I’m terrified of taking a sabbatical (not that I could ever afford to) because things change so quickly. That’s why I get up at 5am so I can write a blog, in hopes that one day it might turn into a book which might give some financial security for the future.
While you might be worried, know that you’re not alone, certainly. All of the young turks who seem up-’n'-coming are really sweating too.
I’m a 38-year-old female, a marketing director, and I play Halo 3…yes the video game. Love it. I know I wasn’t the demo that Microsoft marketed to, but like Cam Beck said, my constant curiosity kept me on top of new things and the next thing I knew I was caught up in the frenzy right before the game came out.
I think as marketers it is important to ALLOW ourselves to be swept up into marketing campaigns that don’t fit us…whether we think we are too young for them, too old, too female, too this or that…doesn’t mater.
Emmerse yourself without fear.
This will keep your perspective fresh, young, hip, all-good-in-the-hood or whatever you want/need to be as a marketer.
Anne,
Absolutely no offense taken.
Yes, we did testing on the rap (it was a jingle for a teens section of a daily newspaper) before we launched the campaign.
We also worked with some young musicians to do the score. I was just responsible for the words.
I will also tell you it was rap “light” as you might imagine. But we got the kids’ attention and interest.
Drew
David,
Thanks for jumping into the conversation and being so frank.
You know, when I was your age I didn’t share your worry. I’m wondering if I was just clueless or if something has changed in the last 15 years to put all of us in a panic.
Can you articulate more specifically what has you so worried?
And for you old dogs — did you worry when you were David’s age? Or is this a new thing?
Drew
Desiree,
“I think as marketers it is important to ALLOW ourselves to be swept up into marketing campaigns that don’t fit us…whether we think we are too young for them, too old, too female, too this or that…doesn’t mater.
Immerse yourself without fear.”
I can’t top that. You hit the nail on the head! How do you personally know where to immerse yourself?
Drew
You can be “too old” at any age. I think it’s about being closed minded, deciding you’re not going to learn it, try it, find out about it.
If we were talking about playing pro sports, my opinion might be different, but this isn’t life / death & permanent injury, it’s marketing!!
Although I have my share of wrinkles & grey hair, I know that by connecting with people who are in different demographics than I am, I will learn as much from them as they from me. That’s one reason why I try to mentor people… and look for mentors for myself who are both older & younger than me.
This year the peak of the baby boom hits 50 and the peak of the echo boom hits 16/17. Learning how to learn and then constantly learning is the trick to avoid becoming too old, in my opinion.
I cut my teeth on marketing with G.I.Joe under the direction of a marketing maven named Bob Prupis. He was always saying to his staff “okay, what’s the next big thing?” I think that’s one key to staying current or ahead of the curve.
Chris Brown
Branding & Marketing blog
I imagine this fear is a new phenomenon. I don’t need to tell anyone on this list about the rapid pace of technology, etc.
I’m reading Joseph Turow’s new book Niche Envy: Marketing Discrimination in the Digital Age (http://www.amazon.com/Niche-Envy-Marketing-Discrimination-Digital/dp/0262201658/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4419190-0825618?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194618427&sr=1-1). While I disagree with his premise and virtually all of his arguments, he does have a fascinating history of advertising/marketing since the late 1800s (chapters 2-3 – skimable at your local bookstore…). Quite simply, things are changing at a more rapid pace then ever before. (Surprise to no one.)
But as marketers we are on the front lines. We need to adapt and keep up not for a hobby but for our livelihood. I have no idea how I’m going to keep up when I have children – when things are even faster and I have less time.
I’ll lay it out on the table: I’ve been doing this for a couple of years and think I’m pretty good at my job (not to sound prideful). But until a week or so ago I couldn’t have told you what del.icio.us was. I don’t have a flickr account. I think corporate blogs are a waste for time for most businesses. I kind of set up an RSS feed once but didn’t really understand what I was doing. But I have to keep up with this stuff, even if I don’t use it or agree with it.
I think online marketers will need to meld the old and new. Questions like who is my audience? What do they care about? Why am I trying to reach them? What is the call to action – these don’t go away. The only thing that’s changed is the medium (and techniques, arguably). Perhaps that should give some reassurance – that the fundamentals will remain the same.