Comments on: Behavioral Targeting – Where’s the Fine Line? http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line Opinions. Commentary. News. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:23:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-152565 Paul Barsch Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:44:49 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-152565 Alan, thank you for commenting. The WSJ had a terrific series "What they Know" that consisted of a weeklong set of articles on this topic. In addition, over the past two years since this column was written many more articles have appeared on behavioral targeting. I suspect there are fewer people now who don't understand the concept and technologies behind the scenes, which in turn will mean fewer web users will actually be "surprised" when targeted "just in time" advertising appears in their browser. Alan, thank you for commenting. The WSJ had a terrific series “What they Know” that consisted of a weeklong set of articles on this topic. In addition, over the past two years since this column was written many more articles have appeared on behavioral targeting. I suspect there are fewer people now who don’t understand the concept and technologies behind the scenes, which in turn will mean fewer web users will actually be “surprised” when targeted “just in time” advertising appears in their browser.

]]> By: Alan - Marketing Attraction Coach http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-151395 Alan - Marketing Attraction Coach Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:11:53 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-151395 Marketing today is different than marketing just 2-3 years ago. And the key with this behaviorial targeting, if it's done right is to appear that it was something you were already looking for, and not something intrusive as marketing used to be. Several people mentioned in their comments that they were concerned with Big Brother, but, as I said, if it is done well, it will seem as if you just accidentally found what you are actually looking for so it doesn't appear like Big Brother at all. It feels like you found it when you needed it. Marketing today is different than marketing just 2-3 years ago. And the key with this behaviorial targeting, if it’s done right is to appear that it was something you were already looking for, and not something intrusive as marketing used to be.

Several people mentioned in their comments that they were concerned with Big Brother, but, as I said, if it is done well, it will seem as if you just accidentally found what you are actually looking for so it doesn’t appear like Big Brother at all. It feels like you found it when you needed it.

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36786 Paul Barsch Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:59:39 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36786 Elena, thank you for commenting on this post. I'm unable to glean your POV from the CANOW post. Are you for completely banning behavioral targeting in all forms? If not, under what conditions would it be permissible? Elena, thank you for commenting on this post. I’m unable to glean your POV from the CANOW post. Are you for completely banning behavioral targeting in all forms? If not, under what conditions would it be permissible?

]]> By: Elena Perez http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36785 Elena Perez Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:49:56 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36785 If you wonder about how "innocent" online data could be accumulated and used against people, read "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow. We just did a review of it at the CA NOW site: <a href="http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/if-you-care-abo.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/if-you-care-abo.html</a> If you wonder about how “innocent” online data could be accumulated and used against people, read “Little Brother” by Cory Doctorow. We just did a review of it at the CA NOW site: http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/if-you-care-abo.html

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36784 Paul Barsch Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:29:17 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36784 Ebay acct business, thanks for taking the time to post a comment. As you are well aware, freedoms aren't really free - there will always be trade-offs and a constant push-pull between citizens and government. Continual vigilance is necessary ensure that fine line -wherever it is- doesn't get crossed often. Ebay acct business, thanks for taking the time to post a comment. As you are well aware, freedoms aren’t really free – there will always be trade-offs and a constant push-pull between citizens and government. Continual vigilance is necessary ensure that fine line -wherever it is- doesn’t get crossed often.

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36783 Paul Barsch Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:24:53 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36783 Nick, you are right about the necessity of targeted ads on social networks. Just think, for example of the millions of dollars in infrastructure and IT personnel needed to keep Twitter up and functioning. Even then, as recent news reports will attest, best efforts fail. There's no free lunch as you aptly point out. Nick, you are right about the necessity of targeted ads on social networks. Just think, for example of the millions of dollars in infrastructure and IT personnel needed to keep Twitter up and functioning. Even then, as recent news reports will attest, best efforts fail. There’s no free lunch as you aptly point out.

]]> By: ebay account business http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36782 ebay account business Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:18:18 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36782 I personally feel this is a sad step in a wrong direction. People deserve their privacy no matter what. Under the guise of fake terrorism, even small things like internet targeting can be magnified in the wrong direction. It starts small with harmless internet targeting, then soon enough it escelates. I personally feel this is a sad step in a wrong direction. People deserve their privacy no matter what. Under the guise of fake terrorism, even small things like internet targeting can be magnified in the wrong direction. It starts small with harmless internet targeting, then soon enough it escelates.

]]> By: Nick Stamoulis http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36781 Nick Stamoulis Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:12:06 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36781 This is definitely a gray area as they need to make money but without making the users feel spied on. It is quite strange to see the targeted ads grace our screens each and every time we log into the social networks -- it's eerie with what some of them come up with but we suppose it's somewhat necessary to keep these networks we love so much online. This is definitely a gray area as they need to make money but without making the users feel spied on. It is quite strange to see the targeted ads grace our screens each and every time we log into the social networks — it’s eerie with what some of them come up with but we suppose it’s somewhat necessary to keep these networks we love so much online.

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36780 Paul Barsch Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:06:47 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36780 Dave, your hypothetical situation reminds me of the movie Minority Report. Great movie! In a digital age, it's a fact that on a computer we leave a digital trail wherever we go. Sometimes that information is used to our benefit, however there are other times when unchecked "progress" does more harm than good. Personally, I believe there is much more potential benefit to consumers via behavioral targeting than big brother. But it's a fine line to be sure. The US congress is now actively concerned with how ISPs and internet companies collect data, how long that data is kept, use of that data, disclosure and user permissions (opt-in/out) are all part of the debate. I appreciate your comments and thank you for joining the discussion! Dave, your hypothetical situation reminds me of the movie Minority Report. Great movie!
In a digital age, it’s a fact that on a computer we leave a digital trail wherever we go. Sometimes that information is used to our benefit, however there are other times when unchecked “progress” does more harm than good.
Personally, I believe there is much more potential benefit to consumers via behavioral targeting than big brother. But it’s a fine line to be sure.
The US congress is now actively concerned with how ISPs and internet companies collect data, how long that data is kept, use of that data, disclosure and user permissions (opt-in/out) are all part of the debate.
I appreciate your comments and thank you for joining the discussion!

]]> By: Dave MacDonald http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36779 Dave MacDonald Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:37:56 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36779 Paul, Thanks, I agree with you. My point of view is strictly from the business side. As a US citizen I am increasingly more concerned with public data being used against the public. I feel very strongly that laws need to limit how government agencies can use this data but it is incredibly tricky. The countries' opinions can change dramatically .... ie. Elected Republicans pre 9/11 were worried about government invading privacy. Post 9/11 elected Republicans are for homeland security and unlawful wire taps. A 180-degree shift. Let me ask your opinion about a hypothetical situation: The government tracks that a man buys a how-to assassination book from Amazon, a gun from his local gun store, and posts on a blog about how he hates a person (but never specifically threatens their life). Should the police react when all signs point to a crime about to be committed? And if they do act how can they intervene if he hasn't yet broken a law? If they don't act how can you justify that someone you don't know died to protect your privacy? But, as for business and marketing I'm fine with it as long as I don't get anything from a gun company. Such material would be irrelevant to me because I don't believe guns should be sold to the citizenry. Paul, Thanks, I agree with you. My point of view is strictly from the business side. As a US citizen I am increasingly more concerned with public data being used against the public.
I feel very strongly that laws need to limit how government agencies can use this data but it is incredibly tricky. The countries’ opinions can change dramatically …. ie. Elected Republicans pre 9/11 were worried about government invading privacy. Post 9/11 elected Republicans are for homeland security and unlawful wire taps. A 180-degree shift.
Let me ask your opinion about a hypothetical situation: The government tracks that a man buys a how-to assassination book from Amazon, a gun from his local gun store, and posts on a blog about how he hates a person (but never specifically threatens their life). Should the police react when all signs point to a crime about to be committed? And if they do act how can they intervene if he hasn’t yet broken a law? If they don’t act how can you justify that someone you don’t know died to protect your privacy?
But, as for business and marketing I’m fine with it as long as I don’t get anything from a gun company. Such material would be irrelevant to me because I don’t believe guns should be sold to the citizenry.

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36778 Paul Barsch Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:13:24 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36778 Follow Vic, you've taken a good first step by dialoging on the issue. The train has left the station, but where it's final destination is yet to be determined. Engaging in the privacy debate helps shape the debate. There is a fine line between benefit and big brother, and I'm still not quite sure we've found it... Follow Vic, you’ve taken a good first step by dialoging on the issue. The train has left the station, but where it’s final destination is yet to be determined. Engaging in the privacy debate helps shape the debate.
There is a fine line between benefit and big brother, and I’m still not quite sure we’ve found it…

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36777 Paul Barsch Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:10:49 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36777 Patricia, I appreciate that you've taken the time to comment on this post. Standardization is often a natural bi-product of legislation. I think we'll see in the next year some standards proposed and adopted by internet providers/sites in an effort to head off legislation. Internet privacy is an issue that's reaching critical mass. Patricia, I appreciate that you’ve taken the time to comment on this post. Standardization is often a natural bi-product of legislation. I think we’ll see in the next year some standards proposed and adopted by internet providers/sites in an effort to head off legislation. Internet privacy is an issue that’s reaching critical mass.

]]> By: followvicslead http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36776 followvicslead Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:06:20 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36776 It is certainly frightening to consider how much privacy we have left... with the Internet, there seems to be NO privacy left. It is certainly frightening to consider how much privacy we have left… with the Internet, there seems to be NO privacy left.

]]> By: patricia http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36775 patricia Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:58:21 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36775 I don't have a comprehensive response/solution, but I'm reminded of the signs I see on public transit every day, informing me that I'm being captured on camera at all times. Maybe the Internet needs a standard badge that should be placed prominently on every single page of websites that may collect and use your info. I don’t have a comprehensive response/solution, but I’m reminded of the signs I see on public transit every day, informing me that I’m being captured on camera at all times. Maybe the Internet needs a standard badge that should be placed prominently on every single page of websites that may collect and use your info.

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36774 Paul Barsch Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:58:35 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36774 Dave, very insightful comments, and I appreciate your input. You seem to be in one camp -"if it's relevant and useful to me, then I'm OK with it." Many consumers are OK with behavioral targeting for those very reasons, that it actually improves the quality of their decision making -whether it's for simple purchases like toothpaste or big ticket items like autos. You are, however, assuming a very benign and altruistic approach with the use of your data. Privacy advocates are concerned with more nefarious uses of accumulated data. And I believe they have every right to be apprehensive... Dave, very insightful comments, and I appreciate your input. You seem to be in one camp -”if it’s relevant and useful to me, then I’m OK with it.” Many consumers are OK with behavioral targeting for those very reasons, that it actually improves the quality of their decision making -whether it’s for simple purchases like toothpaste or big ticket items like autos.
You are, however, assuming a very benign and altruistic approach with the use of your data. Privacy advocates are concerned with more nefarious uses of accumulated data. And I believe they have every right to be apprehensive…

]]> By: Paul Barsch http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36773 Paul Barsch Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:49:22 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36773 Ted, you make an interesting point about disclosure and opt-in. I do have a question however, for those companies that have a privacy policy online, or send consumers their privacy policies via snail mail, how many of us actually read the fine print, and more importantly, how many act upon the information? I would bet a small minority actually read and act on such privacy policies. I'll speak for myself - I need to be more diligent in this area. Ted, you make an interesting point about disclosure and opt-in. I do have a question however, for those companies that have a privacy policy online, or send consumers their privacy policies via snail mail, how many of us actually read the fine print, and more importantly, how many act upon the information?
I would bet a small minority actually read and act on such privacy policies. I’ll speak for myself – I need to be more diligent in this area.

]]> By: Dave MacDonald http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36772 Dave MacDonald Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:37:34 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36772 For me it's much less about Big Brother and much more about relevant targeting. I won't be worried about stored information until a government agency sites that I watched a Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) youtube video and won't let me on a plane the next day. The Barney's article is really where most of this should go. Whether it's from affinity or by tracking my online behavior doesn't really matter. What they do right is knowing who their customers are and how to interact with them. Track me across multiple sites but only offer me things that I want or would want had I known about them. And not a new type of toothpaste whose value prop is 'even more minty' its got to be a new category or be compellingly better not just a variation on a theme. As for saving the Web 2.0 social media business I think more attention needs to be paid to how people actually use the site. The problem is that ultimately 'advertising' online hasn't evolved past banners and pop-ups. Even if they are extremely targeted they are still only banners. Now a group about emerging artists who are playing at a nearby venue might get my attention .... but facebook doesn't currently have a way to charge for this. For me it’s much less about Big Brother and much more about relevant targeting. I won’t be worried about stored information until a government agency sites that I watched a Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) youtube video and won’t let me on a plane the next day.
The Barney’s article is really where most of this should go. Whether it’s from affinity or by tracking my online behavior doesn’t really matter. What they do right is knowing who their customers are and how to interact with them.
Track me across multiple sites but only offer me things that I want or would want had I known about them. And not a new type of toothpaste whose value prop is ‘even more minty’ its got to be a new category or be compellingly better not just a variation on a theme.
As for saving the Web 2.0 social media business I think more attention needs to be paid to how people actually use the site. The problem is that ultimately ‘advertising’ online hasn’t evolved past banners and pop-ups. Even if they are extremely targeted they are still only banners. Now a group about emerging artists who are playing at a nearby venue might get my attention …. but facebook doesn’t currently have a way to charge for this.

]]> By: Ted Mininni http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/comment-page-1/#comment-36771 Ted Mininni Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:18:41 +0000 http://www.mpdailyfix.com/behavioral-targeting-wheres-the-fine-line/#comment-36771 We've all received unwelcome marketing emails because our "information" was shared among parties other than those we intended, Paul. It does lead to a perception of an invasion of our privacy and I expect it will lead to more pushbacks, as a result. Customer profiles are being drawn all of the time, and targeted pieces are sent out online and offline with regularity. . .I just think we ought to be able to "opt in". I also think many of us like doing business with companies who promise not to share our information or profiles with other parties. . . We’ve all received unwelcome marketing emails because our “information” was shared among parties other than those we intended, Paul. It does lead to a perception of an invasion of our privacy and I expect it will lead to more pushbacks, as a result. Customer profiles are being drawn all of the time, and targeted pieces are sent out online and offline with regularity. . .I just think we ought to be able to “opt in”. I also think many of us like doing business with companies who promise not to share our information or profiles with other parties. . .

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