Wow...what a timely post. I'm in a dispute with my business partner right now. He loves to just give away our expertise and undercharge for services, fearing "pricing us out of the market."

I'm anxious to see what other posters have to say on this matter. It is really a delicate dance. Once "friends" get accustomed to having free "coffee," it becomes almost impossible to start charging them for the milk and Splenda.

Drew,

Like you, I give away lots of milk. I don't see that changing. Giving is a good thing, and I believe doing so helps the bottom line more than it hurts our income. When we are generous with our ideas, we reap the rewards of that generosity in referals, leads and lots of happinness.

On the bright side, at least the milk is drinkable. :)

I provide lots of milk - in varied flavors! - on my site. So, when people want to "pick my brain" over coffee, I keep it short and set the tone up front - something like, "I'm always happy to chat for 15 minutes" but I do normally charge for consultations - if you'd like to do more after our initial conversation, that would look like.." And, I refer them to the pre-packaged advice (and my free e-letter) for more if they don't have a budget yet.

I don't know what it is about marketing - but somehow people think we should work for free.

P.S. The more I charge, the
more (good) business I get.

Would you be happier giving it away, or charging money for the times you do?

Figure that out, and you should be able to answer the question ;-)

Drew-

Like everyone else, we do the same thing and hope it leads to $$. I think it's the nature of urgent vs. non-urgent needs in the service business.

If you have mice in your house (urgent), you call an exterminator and pay. But, if you just want to know the best repellent to lay around the foundation to prevent mice from entering (non-urgent), you call an exterminator and he probably tells you for free.

Dawn,

I thought (and hoped) that I was not the only one who wrestles with this from time to time.

It is a balance. The question is...what triggers you shifting from free to consultation AND how do you have that conversation. Like you, I am eager to hear the other's thoughts.

Drew

Thanks Lewis...I thought I was alone in this. True, you always get back what you give. But when it gets to the point where it becomes stressful paying the bills, then too much is being given away.

Mary, you're right. People seem to think marketing is magic and therefore your time isn't worth anything. I've also stressed to my partner that it's better to have a few really profitable clients, than a ton of clients we're bearly making a living with.

Wish me luck...

Lewis,

You are too savvy a business man not to have a boundary about how much to give, though. That's my question.

I am not saying I want to give less. I am not saying we shouldn't share and share some more.

But we run a business. So how do you know when it's time to turn off the free channel?

Drew

Cam,

LOL! Very true. And I don't want to leave people parched. But I do think there's something about our industry that de-values what we sell. We all talk about the new agency model being one where we sell ideas.

How are we going to do that, if we don't know the answers to these questions?

Drew

Mary,

Does anyone bristle at your "but I usually charge" comment? I suppose if they do, you know they're probably not a good potential client anyway, eh?

So you give away a little milk so they can swallow the "next time you need to pay" pill.

I also like the way you position the info you have already bundled as a "here's how I can help if you don't have a budget yet."

No wonder you're so successful! If someone takes the free coffee and calls again for another....how do you handle that?

Drew

Wow, can I relate. It's a tough , tough place to be.

UGH...DID I SPELL "BARELY" WRONG?

UGH...DID I SPELL "BARELY" WRONG?

Great post Drew...Judging by the comment activity, you've struck a nerve.

I often chalk up the giving of milk as a marketing expense. In the high-touch, relationship-driven service business, we're happy to trade a few minutes of counsel for the awareness, credibility and networking we get in return.

The challenge lies in gracefully transitioning the conversation from the marketing phase to the sales phase- where we scope out the job, agree on terms and close.
One way to do this is by following these lactose-laden conversations with a short document that recaps the challenges, goals and general recommendations, and lists specific areas we can help. No pricing, but a little more formality than a conversation over coffee, a reason to follow-up and a framework we can use for a proposal.

Drew -

I can totally relate to what you're saying. I tend to be a bit of a "milkmaid," myself. There are days when I walk away from a conversation doing a Homer Simpson (DOH) over how much I spilled on the table.

Some days it pays off - and sometimes it doesn't. As a rule, however, I find that giving away too much milk means they're no longer thirsty.

Lately, my approach has been doing the initial discussion for free and then offering a reduced fee for an initial consultation. Initial consultations last for 2-16 hours at my discretion... depending on the work at hand. The client will always walk away with written counsel that they can use however and wherever they like.

During the initial consultation, I try to:

1. Zone in on the problem they really want to solve

2. Solidfy whether they have intention, willingness or money to spend on a SOLUTION

3. If they don't have money or willingness to pay for larger scale help, I try to give them a high level view of potential APPROACHES they might take to tackle their challenges. I do not get overly specific or provide solutions in an intial consult, if I can help it - although sometimes I do throw in some cream as bait!

4. I also provide them with a realistic scope of work and estimate that outlines what it will take to have me solve the problems for them...

While some people get weird when I tell them I need to charge for consultation time, I find that those people usually aren't serious about anything other than picking my brain.

I find that those willing to pay for an initial consult are WORTH the reduced fee initial consultation.

This approach is working pretty well so far. In the end, I get paid fairly for a small investment of my time. I don't resent giving advice in the initial consultations, and I use them to create realistic bids for future work. The initial consultations often work into larger scopes of work. :-)

Not a perfect solution... just an idea...

Ryan,

Well sure....nothing would make me happier than to simply give away my time and talent to people and organizations that I believed in. I'd love that.

But that won't pay my mortgage, college tuition or the salaries of the 7 people who depend on me for their families.

So we can't make it be about what would be more fun or make us happy. There has to be a business strategy and a balance to it. That's what I am wondering about...how do you define and then honor that balance.

Drew

I like what alot of you are saying. Networking is a key to a successful life. I would be cautious though in answering questions that you know could lead to a sit down conversation that you could then bill for. Friends are great to have, but when they start impacting your bottom line that is where you need to ask the question, How good a friend is this really? Are they only friends with me because I give them great advice? If the only time that you hear from your "Friends" is when they are in a bind or need a solution, then you know how important of a friend they really are. I go by the motto, Give a Little, Get back More! Never give away your professional opinion and education! You Worked TOO DAMN HARD to get ahead! Friends taking you to coffee is a great gesture! Friends who ask you all the time for business advice, might be time to find some new friends! DO NOT GIVE AWAY YOUR BUSINESS for FREE! You will kick yourself all the way to the unemployment line!

Jeff,

Love the mice analogy!

So how do you move someone from the free counsel to a paying relationship? Do you have a strategy or trick you can share?

And as I asked Mary -- so let's say they have hit you up for the free coffee counsel once and call again for another.

How do you handle that?

Drew

Hey Drew,

Great post. This is probably more of an issue than many care to admit. But it's a thorny one, which I suspect is why you're raising it.

It reminded me of what I read in David Maister's Strategy & the Fat Smoker. In it, Maister presented the difference between sales plans and relationships; the former is a way of getting while the later is part of giving. If you're more interested in relationships than the sales, the choice is clear. And if you appear to be more of a trusted advisor rather than simply an expert, the relationship should blossom.

It all comes down to what you're willing to put into the short-term to (hopefully) gain in the long-term. It's a business cost you're undertaking with your firm, much as you would with R&D, equipment or talent, only this is an investment. So rather than being amortized as an expense over time, it's an outlay against future revenue.

At a certain point, you'll use your people skills to understand who's hanging around to see if they can get as much free milk as they want, and you'll send them to another farm. But if they're really looking for a trusted advisor (and Maister's research indicates that 80% of businesses are), there's going to be some giving on their side as well.

Jon,

Thoughts on how it should be handled?

Drew

This brings two thoughts to mind:

1) Everyone has ideas, so therefore ideas without action aren't worth much. It's been my experience that when I give away advice, it usually leads to being hired to help implement the advice.

Even when talking about consulting, the best consultants don't just report their observations and give advice based on what they see. The best consultants have to immerse themselves into the company culture to create action steps.

2) It's easy to spot a free loader. You know the person. They come to you with the intentions of sucking all they can out of you. They try to mask it, but you can tell what their true intentions are. Then they will either try to go and do whatever they were needing help with themselves or they will look for the cheapest way to get the job done. These people are dead end connections and a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem rationing the milk to these types, and completely cutting off the supply if necessary.

Dawn,

You've got me laughing at my desk here. Not only did you spell it wrong...but then you posted the fact that you spelled it wrong TWICE!

Boy, this topic has you rattled! ;-}

Drew

Drew-

RE: Do you have a strategy or trick you can share?

See Todd Cabral's post. That's how we roll. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Drew,

Wow! You want all my secrets. OK. But you have to promise not to share how I limit my giving:

1) Clients--I give them four free hours for every 10 that I work on their solutions. I don't charge for our meetings, except expenses.
2) Potential Clients--Often find me by reading something I've written. Therefore, they have achieved their "freebie" limit until they become a client.
3) Professional peers--I share and share and share some more.
4) Former clients--Get one year of answers for their questions, as long as they don't share those answers with others.
5) Friends who will never become clients--They get some basics as "freebies," and then I refer them to someone who charges less than I.

Todd,

I like the follow up with a recap idea. That clearly says...and now we would start charging you to proceed.

Agreed on the marketing expense comment, by the way. Without a doubt, you need to give free samples. I have always been a huge proponent of that.

The trick is knowing when enough is enough and how to, as you suggest, gracefully move from one stage to another.

Drew

Respectfully, but totally, disagree.

Give it away big time. Blog it, share it, speak, write, whatever.

You ideas are your selling tools. Give enough away and real clients will pay for even more.

I give away 100 books/month ($25 each), blog everything, speak for free. And the more I do, the more work I get.

Demonstration: I'll send a free book to the next 5 people who ask for one (use blog comment form).

Andy Sernovitz
Author, Word of Mouth Marketing: How Smart Companies Get People Talking (http://tinyurl.com/2twm77)

Drew,

This is a great article and the comments are great too. I would like to re-print the article on my blog with your permission.

I couldn't agree with you more and in fact I agreed with you so much that I created a company and a web site that allows individuals to monetize their business relationships. No more free-rides for linking up people with business.

www.salesconx.com

Hey Andy, I'll take you up on your offer! I'm a reader of your blog already and obviously a fan of your work.

It is very disturbing to me that we are afraid to get compensated for doing our jobs. If your friend was a broker and you were buying a home through him who you expect him to forgo his commission? If you went to your friend the physician for a check up are you charged a fee? So why do we allow our assets to be given away for free simply because someone asks nicely? Is your knowledge in marketing any less valuable than the physicians knowledge of medicine. Your friend the broker gets commission simply for showing you a property.

This doesn’t mean of course that all your time is billable but it also doesn’t mean that you are running a pro-bono service either. And by the way, I don’t buy into the “what goes around comes around adage” as that was created by people who simply wanted something for free. In the situation above I would have told the acquaintance, ‘your situation sounds very interesting and it really merits more than a flip answer. Why don’t you come into my office so we could discuss the situation professionally?’ Now this is the litmus test; if the acquaintance isn’t willing to schedule an appointment in a professional manner than why should dole out counsel for free. Note that I didn’t explicitly say to charge the acquaintance – you could determine that at the meeting and whether there is an opportunity for some billable time. But, you wouldn’t expect you friend the physician to give you an off-the-cuff physical examination either.

It is important that we recognize that our human capital be it from an expertise that we have, to relationships that we have cultivated, are valuable and giving them away for free only serves to reduce their value.

I think you'll get into trouble trying to bill everyone for every minute. I think a large part of the reason I've been successful is giving away just enough to convince people I'm an expert in a given field, and more often than not they hire me to carry out that work. In part because I didn't tell them everything and in part because they don't have interest in pursuing it directly anyway.

On the other hand, I track all my time down to the quarter-hour for just about everything I ever do related to the business. These records sit in a database, and if I end up giving a single client more than one lunch worth of attention, I can see it immediately and decide when to draw the line and call it billable.

I hate tracking time as much as anyone, but it's a necessary evil. My advice, track everything and use those metrics to decide what's worth turning into a project or business relationship.

/\S

@Drew: I'm saying there's usually a point when you can "feel" people doing all the taking, and not offering anything in return. If this happens, it probably won't give you much pleasure to keep handing out freebies.

Personally I think there's a threshold here. At some point, passing out advice goes from being enjoyable to being a burden. At that point I think it's more than fair to expect something in return.

Leigh,

Now that's a great method. Offer value on the front end but taper down how much you get for free.

I'll bet you're right -- it allows you to separate those who are serious and those who are just milking you.

Drew

Jeff (Campbell),

If you don't give away a little (kind of a sampling model) how do you demonstrate your expertise/value to a prospect?

In other words...how do you get around the free milk thing?

Drew

Scott,

No argument from me on that. I'm all for investing in the relationship on the front end. But...at some point, they're either a pro bono client or you get paid.

My question is...how do you determine where to draw the line and how do you gracefully have that conversation so the client feels good about being moved from a freebie to paying for what they need/want.

Drew

Chris,

Much of what is being talked about and written about in terms of the agency of the future is the exact opposite. Soon agencies will be valued/judged not on the stuff they make but the ideas and insights they offer.

I believe the ideas and knowledge we have is exactly what we should be selling. Sure, we make stuff too. But if the smarts aren't behind the stuff...a monkey with a PC can make an ad, right?

So...what's the reasonable middle ground?

Drew

Lewis,

I promise, this is just between you and me! :)

When you give your clients the 4 hours...do you show them that somehow? Is it credited on an invoice or documented in some way?

I ask because people can't value and appreciate what they don't know they have.

So if a potential client wanted to pick your brain over coffee....would you say no? After they "sign on" then they get that advice?

Thanks for sharing your philosophy -- you truly are one of the most generous peers I know.

Drew

Andy,

Actually, respectfully, I don't think you do disagree.

I don't think anyone who has commented is saying we shouldn't blog, speak, share, have coffee and offer some counsel etc.

We all do what you are proposing and I would guess many of us who are authors have also given away a ton of our books.

But at some point, we all (you included) need to get paid.

If a company came to you, asking for advice -- would you help them create a WOM campaign for free? Without any end of the freebies in sight?

I am guessing the answer is no. Which I think is what we're all saying. My question is really -- when do you know enough is enough? And how do you handle that transition.

So, do you still disagree? If so, I'd love for you to talk more about that disagreement.

Drew

Evan,

I'll ask you the same question I asked Jeff Campbell. If you don't subscribe to the sampling method -- how do you convince your prospect of your expertise and value?

For example...once a month, my company hosts a free Branding Breakfast and we serve a hot breakfast and an hour's worth of information/counsel on branding your business.

We put it in the newspaper, we include the invite in our free weekly marketing e-tip...etc.

That's one of the big ways we demonstrate that we know our stuff.

How do you accomplish that?

Drew

Ian (and 4 other smart readers) -- you'll love Andy's book. Filled with great examples and an insightful read.

Drew

Andy,

I agree with you 100%. It is a smart strategy to give away a little, to demonstrate your expertise. There's not a client at our shop who doesn't get the "you need to sample" speech.

The idea of tracking the freebie time is interesting. Ryan may be right -- there's probably a gut check level of knowing that you're starting to feel used. But, having accurate numbers is probably wise as well.

Drew

Ryan,

Excellent point -- the gut check. At some point, you feel a little used. Once you get that sort of vibe, you probably know there's no opportunity on the horizon or if there is -- you'd better say something to move the relationship in that direction.

When in doubt, listen to that inner voice.

Drew

Yeah, though at the same time I always seem to be behind on the hour-tracking. It's a bit of a drag, yet I still keep at it as it seems to always become useful (especially when billing). Until I become a project-only business, I'll keep doing it.

I've been on the other side of this as well, trying to get projects rolling with new partners and players. One of them involved a series of conversations for more than a year, which has recently finally erupted into 4 or 5 jobs to share between us. I was glad to have all the free advice (and some went the other way) but keenly aware that I needed to get some real projects on the table or this would eventually dry up. I imagine any client in the business world would be sensitive to this. And if they are not, it might not be a good match anyway.

Does anyone distinguish the free give away quotient offered to prospective versus current or former clients? I am always generous, but I tailor the amount of free advice to each situation, the established relationship, the cost/benefits balance, referral source, and the effort associated with providing the help sought.
I also am of the mindset that what goes around comes back and this drives me to enjoy being the giver. If you take this to the networking level, then it makes a whole lot of good sense. Being generous almost always pays off in reciprocal relationships, if not immediately or from the same person you gave to, then sometime in the future and from an unexpected source. Few persons are purposefully trying to rip you off. Those who continually abuse your relationship are probably ones that you should distance yourself from. Anyone else reporesents a high probability of giving back, someday, somehow.

DebraFeldman
the JobWhiz

I think it is about simultaneously moving up the value chain and broadening your reach (as Andy suggests). It is not about doing more based on time, but more based on value of your offer multiplied by your network (think of your Disney PDF - imagine if that was a $5 download).

This means investing upfront in process, systems and content. Making it bite sized. Accessible. And probably cheap.

There is nothing new, really, but it sometimes pays to remember the small steps. In case you can't tell, I have been reviewing Michael Port's new book ;)

Sorry, I don't really feel your pain at all. All you were doing was telling someone an idea. The information should always be free. To think that in a world as open as the one we live in that we should still be hording all the "good answers", you're kinda living in the 80's man. What we start charging for is the service. That's the only thing that's worth anything anymore and always will be. Stop trying to sell ideas, let those go out for everyone to understand and absorb. Sell your service of getting the job done. An idea is nothing, it's the agency that can activate on that idea the best which will succeed.

Drew,

You're right, the industry is changing.

But I think there is a difference between giving away an idea and creating insights and bridging gaps for clients. Neither require us to produce something physical, and I guess we could technically consider them all ideas, but the later is more complete, and I would argue that is where the value is. Give the ideas away.

Drew,

Before we sign a contract, I tell them that I apply a 60% utilization rate, meaning client pays for 10 hrs. of every 14 hrs. that we work for them. Yes, if a potential client asked me to coffee or lunch, I would give them free advice. I'm pretty much in Andy's court here, although I do have some barriers, which I break all the time. I do believe that giving is good.

"Respectfully, but totally, disagree.

Give it away big time. Blog it, share it, speak, write, whatever.

You ideas are your selling tools. Give enough away and real clients will pay for even more."

I agree with Andy here. And I am even ok with giving away tactics and strategies. But when you cross over to giving away tactics and strategies that are tailored to specific circumstances for specific people/companies/etc., then you've gone too far and are leaving money on the table, IMO.

I have done this a number of times because it just "comes up" in the ourse of conversation. I enjoy it and will never charge close friends for my time unless it is for the sake of a "business transaction.

Great discussion everyone. I don't think anyone is arguing with the notion that we should be generous with ideas in generalities.

Would you write a marketing plan for someone for free?

That, I think, is the crux of this discussion. Not if there should be a line...but where should it be.

Drew

Great conversation here. My take is simple: Ideas are easy. Making ideas happen is hard.

That's why I give away milk all the time.

My blog gives aways ideas. My manifestos give away ideas. My conversations give away ideas. My email replies give away ideas.

There are enough places (consulting gigs and speaking gigs) where I can make some scratch from my idea-giving that I'm not concerned about giving away too much milk fro free.

Give-aways are always a good idea when you have a product to sell. They get tricky though when you are a service-oriented business. Essentially, you end up giving away ideas - rather than showing off what you have made.

I do find that running a service oriented business does make it more difficult to give away samples. The key is being able to successfully talk your potential clients through the problem they are having, rather than just sit back and listen.

Whenever someone calls up wanting to talk about a service, or we sit down for a lunch to talk about how we can help assist a new client, it's important we seek first to understand and THEN to be understood. The second part is key. We need to know when to stop listening, and start telling. Back that talk up with examples of what you've done. Show them where you've made it work before. Prove to them you can do what you say you can do.

Drew:

In my past, this has been a problem. In fact, it's what made me decide to get back on the client side of the desk...I was giving free advice to my friends and colleagues "over lunch" but not getting paid for it. What I realize now is that I was doing a lot of guessing, too!

Today, it's not a problem because I don't believe anything I'd give to a client after meeting with them for an hour or so over lunch is worth much. I spend most of that time demonstrating my knowledge - and answering their questions - by telling what OTHER brands are doing. I discuss the D.I.R.T.Y. brand model, give examples and then ask questions.

It's selling, not consulting.

When I'm asked about strategies and tactics, I tell them the truth: I don't know their brand well enough to answer that. Then, I introduce our brand discernment process...the purposeful, valuable and time-consuming engagement that costs money. It's in-depth, it's candid and it's hard work getting to know a brand and understanding how to demonstrate that brand. Anything less is just guessing, in my mind. I think guessing is what seperates us from a conventional advertising agency that will talk with the client for an hour then knock their socks off with a beautiful ad that looks good but doesn't look like the client. The client realizes it six months later when the bill's been paid but the ad (or any other execution) didn't work.

Longer discussions reduce the guessing, and they cost money, so I'm willing to work hard to sell that concept.

-Mark

I am sure you know about where the line is between demonstrating your expertise, figuring out the prospective client's needs, and the optimal time to stop giving free information. There are times when you just know they won't end up a client and it is just an enjoyable conversation.

But consult Miss Manners and use a bit of diplomacy to turn a conversation into a prospective business relationship. Perhaps your goal could be to gracefully earn an opportunity to follow-up with them on Tuesday or whenever works?

Drew: I give away single size portions of milk-based recipes all the time. I'm a huge "got milk?" evangelist. I tout the value of calcium, believe in whole not 2%, and prefer organic.

I draw the line at actually milking the cow, though.

It's a bit like the difference between reading the bible and becoming a saint. There's the thinking and the doing. Telling someone about the power of promoting their brand with a Hollywood property is great, but they still can't do it without a lot of help. Same with blogging, advertising, or negotiating an endorsement deal.

We have to be clear what our value add is and what we really bill for. We (probably) don't get paid to have cool ideas. We (probably) do get paid for executing them in such a way that the client makes money.

John (Moore),

I think everyone who has commented gives away ideas via blogging, podcasting, their books, etc. etc.

No argument there. Giving away "generic" ideas is one thing. But, do you draw the line when someone wants ideas specific to their company or product? Or do you choose to keep giving away ideas, with the intention of being hired to execute those ideas?

Drew

Mack,

So am I hearing you agree with Mark True (a comment a few after yours) in that -- you are all for talking in generalities and offering ideas/thoughts based on generic good practices.

But...when a company asks for counsel specifically tied to their objectives/agenda -- that's when it becomes a paying gig?

Drew

Debra,

Interesting distinction -- prospect versus paying client. I think Lewis is the only one who has addressed that so far.

But you're right...they are different. And without a doubt, all of this is subject to individual case discretion. I was just curious if others wrestle with it (and I think we can safely say...yes!)

Drew

Gavin,

"This means investing upfront in process, systems and content. Making it bite sized. Accessible. And probably cheap."

I'm reading Michael's book too and I agree completely. I think the question for most people is when/how do you make the shift.

Drew

Drew ... if its an emerging business, I will almost always spend a few minutes and share ideas for how to solve some of their marketing issues.

I draw the line when its an established business, one with a proven track record of growth. For those businesses I will gladly share ideas so long as we have a working agreement in place. This is where my scratch comes from. Dig?

A sip is fine. A bottle isn't.

The Follis Marketing Report:
Expert Advice and Insight to Build Your Business Better.

Here's a possible way to move a free relationship forward and is appropriate on March 2. Send an invoice to all your "clients" with the amount you feel you've spent, and then "zero" it out at the bottom. Oh yeah, make sure it inludes what you've actually produced for them, not time spent.

My PR consultant Todd Miechiels, has done a TON of great work for us and I gladly pay him top dollar.

His deliverables are worth it.

Andy:

I think I'm in the first five... and I'd love to see your book!

Giving a little knowledge away (in the form of articles, blogs, white papers, etc.) is an easy way to distinguish yourself from the competition and demonstrate your expertise.

Here are a few insights from my own experience:
-- consultants are more at risk from clients who try to squeeze them than from prospects who want free advice.

-- a prospect who won't pay for an initial consultation is
generally not worth pursuing.

-- giving a little time away here and there can pay dividends in the long run.

-- it's usually obvious who just needs some advice and who's trying to really milk you.

Thanks for a stimulating thread, Drew!

— Aryeh Narrow, MarCom Specialist
AdScientist.wordpress.com

Great dialog here! And a topic many of us face constantly.

I think there have been many excellent points made here. The bottom line is that we're all different, with varying levels of tolerance and desire to share our talents pro bono. Each one of us must weigh the pros and cons of each situation and judge it accordingly. There's a balance we find depending on where we are in building our careers and reputations.

There have been times when I've been taken advantage of in a big way, which tended to make me more cautious the next time. I've also been very generous with my time and ideas and good things have resulted. The longer I'm at this, the better my radar becomes.

Who you are advising is the key to free or not. We break it down into subcategories and follow these guidelines:

1. Complete strangers who you are not meeting with: Don't solve their problem for free, simply point them toward a direction like a lighthouse for free.

2. Prospective client in a meeting who might have money: Do what interior designers do. Talk about how you'd attack the probelm but don't solve the problem for free.

3. Current client: only free advice is the five-step process to attack the problem but never solve it for free.

4. Peers: Stay focused on the process for solving the problem and not the actual solution. Offer to partner in developing the solution.

5. Great friends: solve it for free...that's what friends are for.

I've brought this topic up on my small business forum. 'How much is too Much" I've posed the same questions.

Online networking works best when one can position themselves as a resource, though knowing when and where to draw the line seems to often be a conundrum. As many in the consulting field have responded.

When I am offering helpful advice and people are asking for more, I've started responding 'Is your local grocery store giving away free groceries this week'?

I have a great relationship with the network members, I no longer give the milk away.

As far as a friend calling me for advice, I go into a mentor/coach mode and no longer the consult mode. My mindest like that of my college days while bartending - friends stopping in because they thought they'd get free beer because I'm their buddy. Indeed I am your buddy but this is business, nothing personal.

This is such a hard one.... I'd like to say we have rules, but really we're operating on guidelines. "We get paid for our ideas," I'm fond of saying to our team members, though as Stephen said, we really get paid for implementing ideas that make our clients money.
We never charge anyone for a first meeting, and we're happy to spend an hour with anyone who might be a client now or in the future, or who might know people who need to know about us... we do give some milk away in those meetings but we try not to actually give them a blueprint for success. I teach a marketing and personal sales night as part of an entrepreneurship series at our local community college several times a year. Give away some milk there, too, but people starting new businesses are what will keep expanding the market for our services. I view it as an investment in our future. Some students (these are adults, typically leaving a job to start their own companies) have later become clients.
When something doesn't go the way I think it ought to, I say, "Well, they didn't ask me..." So when someone DOES "ask me," I try to answer with some thought and for some benefit to the asker. So yes, we give away some milk. When I have to move a conversation to a billable level, I usually say something like, "Wow, Jerry, you have an interesting challenge in front of you... I'd love to talk more about it, but I have to run to a client meeting. Kids need shoes and all, you know? I have some time next week if you'd like to meet more formally to talk about some next steps to move your plans along."
Amazingly, most people do get the hint :)

@Andy: I'd love to get a copy of your book! I've been meaning to learn more about how to do word-of-mouth marketing and your book sounds fantastic.

@Drew: I'm an occasional Daily Fix reader...but it's been a long time since I saw this many comments on one post!

I work in retail marketing, so I sell products, not services - it's a little easier for me to draw the line as to when my friends should pay.

However, I still find myself giving product away for 2 reasons:

a) These are my friends

b) It's an opportunity for my friends to become brand ambassadors.

Vincent

Andy,

I'll take you up on your offer, too. I'm a big fan and a reader already.

Thanks,

Kelly

Drew,

The way we work the conversation is to think of ourselves during that coffee as therapists. We're listening, we're drawing your questions and your own answers out of you. We're not really offering solutions but may help you direct your thoughts.

I find this makes people feel

Listened to (since that's what it is),
Empowered (since some of the answers generally do lie within ourselves), and
Hungry for more (since talking an issue out often raises more questions than it answers).

If nothing else, I get a blog article or two out of the concerns the prospective client has.

It works pretty well and it starts the relationship off on the right foot.

Regards,

Kelly

Andy,

If I counted correctly, my request makes #5 and I'll take you up on your offer, as well. It sounds like a great read.

I liked what Mike (Fox) had to say. I think we tend to (and probably should if we don't) categorize on several different levels. Maybe at some levels you or I would give away one or two solutions. Hopefully those good friends are providing some free solutions for you, too. But the point is that how we respond to requests often depends less on the request itself and more on the requestor, and the topic, and the context...kind of like how we tailor our marketing strategies!

Regards,

Steve

Mark, (True)

Hmm, a very interesting distinction. The notion that I think both Andy and John Moore were referencing -- give away ideas in the abstract.

And you're right, it's a little like a doctor diagnosing someone at a cocktail party. You can only do so much until you can really conduct an exam.

Drew

Neil,

You could be right -- maybe it is as simple as scheduling a follow up meeting. Or combining that with the suggestion to follow up in writing with a few action points, including where you could be of service.

It allows the consultant to be active in the budding relationship, rather than just waiting for the prospect to call again.

Drew

Stephen,

Good to have you weigh in. It's interesting how many define the "line" as making something happen as opposed to the idea itself.

Do you think most marketing consultants give away the planning/ideation time?

Drew

John (Moore)

Dig.

Interesting that you define the line based on the longevity of the company and your inclination to mentor the young companies. I haven't heard anyone draw their boundaries quite that way before.

Makes sense, both in terms of long term investment in the new and the assumption that the more established has they money to pay you.

I'm going to ponder on that one a bit.

Drew

A one-hour free consultation is a great way to demo the goods, and to confer perceived value upon your initial prospecting conversation. Ideally, the free consultation is scheduled separately - a distinct conversation after the one you use to qualify the lead - which serves to set it off as a value in and of itself.

Interestingly enough, the "consultation" may work best when it is 65% listening - a key ratio both for building relationships and for making a sale.

For one thing, asking smart questions about their business can often be the best way to get clients/prospects to think you're brilliant and command an excellent understanding of their issues. ("Did you do that to increase your operational efficiencies, or to better engage your sales force in your marketing program?" "If your immediate goal is to boost your same-store sales, why do you think social media is your best option at this point?")

In that context, you can "give away" some suggestions based on general principles without giving answers tailored to the specific situation. ("Did you ever consider analyzing the ROI including referrals as well as immediate transactions?" "Would it make sense to focus your strategies by behavioral segmentation instead of psychographics?")

Maybe the way to think about where we draw the line is between the "What" and the "How." It isn't giving away much to show them What needs to be done.It only serves to confirm what they already sorta know, and whets their appetite for the next step. Our expertise lies in knowing How to do it way better, faster, and more cost-effectively than they can on their own, saving them time, pain and money on the way. And for that, they need to pay us.

"But when you cross over to giving away tactics and strategies that are tailored to specific circumstances for specific people/companies/etc., then you've gone too far and are leaving money on the table, IMO."

Spot on. We do search marketing, and there's no option but to do a lot of explaining and educating. Understanding the problem and talking possible routes of fixing it is just what you do. When people are trying to get the magic recipe, I just say something along the lines of, "To be able to really answer your question and tell you what needs to be done, I'd need to dig into your site and see what's going on. I'm happy to give you the rates if you feel like that's what you need."

People have to understand that you get paid to tell businesses what to do. We have a packet of free tools and tips, a PPT deck that gives an overview of SEM, and some other stuff we can hand off to people who can't afford the actual work. Stopping taking those tiny clients who really can't do all the investing and work needed has been a very good thing. They wind up needing a ton of hand-holding that's very hard to bill for if you've set yourself up as the marketing cow.

Sorry to be so late to this lively party. You know, it's pretty shocking that nobody's brought this up, I think. But Andy's comment (forgive me for not reading every post) are marketing tactics where one person is talking to lots of people at the same time and not solving their specific problem. That's marketing.

But, Drew is speaking about a one-on-one which is a sales conversation because it is to solve a specific problem.

When someone asks me for advice, I say "You know, that's what I get paid for?" and then we both chuckle. But, most people understand. I tell them that I'll give them one tip for free but I would only do that for a friend.

Drew, just get a little tougher and think about using a free 15 or 30 minute session with you for them to talk with the intention of turning it into a business development appointment.

Marketers are helpers by nature. Don't feel too bad. Excellent post!

Sorry, I'm even later than Anne, although I commented on this topic earlier...

I got a call from a friend over the weekend, exact same scenario, "Hey, I have a problem, can you solve it." I rattled off a theory I had and once I hung up the phone, it hit me like a ton of bricks: The reason people don't put a value on the service is because we as marketers, naturally helpers, think about a situation for a second and give them an answer less than a minute later. So to the person asking for (free) advice, there's no effort on your part.

What I will do in the future is take down the information and say, "hey let me get back to you." At that point you've silently told this "friend" that some time and effort will go into their situation.

One of two things will happen, both in your favor:

1. They will stop calling for free advice.

2. They will see the value in your service and not be suprised when the topic of compensation is brought up.

When something is fast and free, it holds no value to people. Whew! I'm glad I worked that one out...

This must be the consultant's ongoing dilemma. I'm always being asked for help for free and as Lewis and many others suggests, of course you go along with it, often picking up the tab for the coffees, muffins and sandwiches too.

My way out of Freemansland and into Consultant Country is to give a little, the to explain, "Look, what you need is this... And I'm happy to give you some pointers and feedback but if you want some serious advice and assistance, that's the point where I have to put on my professional hat." For those that still don't get it, I explain further "This is actually how I earn my keep, so if I don't charge my clients for my very valuable services, very soon I won't be available to anyone at all, because I'll die either of starvation, or exposure, or both."

They usually get it at that point.

I particularly love my dear friends who have a half-baked brainwave, and call me at 10:00PM at home wanting to tell me about their latest GRQ business idea, expecting ringing endorsement, and a business plan back by breakfast time, all for free.

I usually let my wife handle them. She's brilliant.

I have built many a brand strategy on tutorial marketing or expertise sales and the entire principle of "giving to get" is easy if you are selling more than advice. Implementation is the service. , not the advice itself. Most people don't want to do it themselves. They want to think they can, but at the end of the day they can't. Sometimes giving away your expertise is the best way to convince them to hire the firm or buy the product.