Excuse my ignorance but what are these "grooming products" that men buy on the sly?

I have soap, water, shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, and shaving cream.

When my clothes become too thread bear, I go to www.llbean.com and order something.

I am not joking when I ask what else there is that would be useful? I would proudly buy it if I thought it would be useful.

Andrea,

I am with Neil on this. I live halfway between NYC and Boston and fail to notice much in the way of changes in men's fashion (suits, ties, business casual, practical shoes, etc.). If I were to evaluate the state of men's fashion, I would argue there was a lot more attention paid to our "style" in the '60s and then the Disco era than today. As for me, business casual at work and jeans the rest of the time are all I need.

The changes are mostly with younger men.

This was all covered with the whole "metrosexual" trend a few years back.

And while that's faded, it's definitely commonplace for younger guys to be more into fashion and grooming than their Boomer parents. Hair gel, $200 jeans, moisturizer, "manscaping"- there's a long list- not at all a sign of slipping masculinity.

Beyond that, "fashion" is a fungible term, IMHO. The hipster who searches for the perfect ironic t-shirt is no less obsessed with looks and style than someone searching for the right handbag.

Lewis and Neil - You should come live in my house for a week or so. As Toad alludes to above, my (almost) 16-year-old might look grungy... but he combs funky second-hand shops for the "right" corduroys. It took him months to find a hair product he was happy with. ("Too sticky." "Too foamy." "Ah.. just right.") He's looking now for a winter jacket that offers the right mix of brand identity and functionality. He's a marketer's dream -- or a nightmare -- and he shops mostly online.

Recently, exasperated by his online browsing habits, I told him, "My god... you shop like a woman!" His response: "Thank you." (LOL)

Looks like there is more than gender to everything, right? I agree with Lewis and Neil that this fashion gender gap may not necessarily be seen in those older than, hmmm, say 32? But, maybe we should just think about what those guys are going to be willing to buy, wear, consider as they get older. I think things are changing, even if we can't spot it, anecdotally, amongst ourselves or our friends.

A great resource on the evolution of the male consumer exists in the book - The Future of Men, by the way.

And, TToad - you are right. It is no sign of slipping masculinity that we see these changes. The fun of being hip is universally felt.

Well, I don't doubt there is more male grooming going on. I pay a bit more attention to it myself that I used to do.

What I am wondering, though, is what are these things that men buy on the sly?

None of the things TToad mentions are things I would be ashamed to bring up to the register at a store. I would not be ashamed to tell my male friends that I used them though I doubt it would come up in conversation.

BTW, I am going to come clean, I am 39 and about a year ago I bought an electric razor and it ain't for my face.

Maybe I want to be educated because I would generally like to be better groomed, frankly.

But I am generally happy with my casual sort L.L. Bean/REI style with fairly basic grooming.

Frankly, though, I am curious as to what more I could do but I am not interested in a metrosexual or hip look.

If I have kids and, as a divorced guy, it is not happening tomorrow, I will dress them head to toe in L.L. Bean and REI. Cute, I think. Hip? Probably not.

Neil, you would like to dress your kids at L.L.Bean but at the end they will decide how to dress. As Ann said, youngs and young adults tend to pay more attention to style and details then their fathers. And this is more true outside the States, in Europe and in the affluent part of Far East.

LOL. You are absolutely right. They might actively rebel against L.L. Bean or be embarrassed by it or something.

I shudder slightly to think of what might be in store as a rebellion against L.L. Bean and REI style and lifestyle. Indoors always. Franz Kafka books strewn about. Dressed all in black. Shots of hard liquor and god knows what drugs.

Neil: Don't you realize that your whole "LL Bean/REI" shtick is as much of a "look" as a guy who dresses in head-to-toe Prada?

You've picked clothes that say, or more accurately, shout "I am an earthy athletic guy who is all about the outdoors and isn't hung up on the vagaries of fashion."

That's a lot different than the guys who buy whatever their wives buy for them or who really don't think about clothing at all.

@Andrea: I'd say that 42 is a more accurate number than 32. Though a lot of that has to do with life stage, location and profession.

Well, I suppose that there is something in the middle between L.L.Bean and the Existentialism.

What about the reverse? Wouldn't it be great if Best Buy and most car dealerships (excluding Lexus) embraced female shoppers and responded with a richer experience for those of us entering their stores? Women have been purchasing "toys and tech" for years but most manufacturers and retailers have been slow to accept that their consumer base has expanded beyond the male market.

TToad, you have successfully called bullshit on my assertion that I don't care about fashion, and ruined my carefully cultivated image (with myself). Nice work. :-)

ginaandrea, yes, there are many stops between Bean and Sarte. Though, truth be told, I would be thrilled to catch my teenager reading Sarte or just about anything else substantial. I'd be happy if the TV were cold and dark for the most part. It'd be a sign my philosophically (in the goals department) compatible future wife and I were doing something right.

But, since I don't have kids, I have no more idea what it would be like than to walk on the moon.

I have friends who have kids and the kids like me (sort of Uncle Neil) but I have no idea what it be like to be absolutely responsible for kids. Kind of scary notion.

AnnaMaria, good point on making the toys and tech experience better for women.

I see just as many women behind the wheel of a car, texting someone, or on her Macbook at the local coffee shop.

The gadget gap may only be for the those belt hanging products. Women have the sense to put their gadgets away completely when they are done and not hang them from their belts.

Ann, yes, I have heard of this carefully cultivated grungy look that requires just the right thread bear clothing. Fascinating.