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Tara Hunt creates a 'Pinko Marketing Manifesto'. David doesn't like it....
In fact David gives an almost point by point explanation for why he thinks the 'Pinko Marketing Manifesto' is wrong.
As I was reading David's post, I would agree with him on one point, then disagree with him on the next one. That's not why I am posting this. (To be fair, many of the points that David was disagreeing with, weren't written by Tara.)
I am posting this because I think we may be creating a war that isn't there, or at least it shouldn't be. This isn't a war with the 'consumers' over who has control of the marketing message. Neither party has total control. Marketers have control over the marketing message that they send to their communities, and the communities have control over how they relate that message to others. If at all. And they can send a marketing message (feedback) back to the marketers.
But in the end, all parties play a role in how that marketing message is spread, and IF it is spread. And in what form it takes. The problem I have is trying to make this a proposition where the community is right, and marketers are wrong. That reasoning is not only incorrect, but it frames the argument in a cloud of conflict that will immediately cause many marketers to close their minds to the message.
When you tell marketers that, 'You are wrong, the community is right. Deal with it!', many of them will cave to human nature, stick their middle finger in your face, and say, 'No YOU deal with THIS!'
So which side is winning this war? If you have to ask this question, then be certain that YOU are on the side that's losing.
Because there is no war. There is a new reality that communities are hyper-connected, and their ability to efficiently communicate is growing exponentially.
But there is also an age-old reality that's never changed, and likely never will: Communities need marketers just as much as marketers need communities. The role of marketers isn't to cede control to our communties, and get out of their way, our job is to JOIN our community, and clear a path for them to help them reach their destination as quickly and efficiently as possible. We walk with them. We don't lead them, and they don't lead us. Anyone that thinks otherwise, is missing something.
We join communities so that the line between 'marketing message' and 'community communication' becomes blurred. We join communities so that line between the wants and needs of the community, and our wants and needs as marketers, becomes blurred. We don't sit down and shut-up and listen to our community. We COMMUNICATE with them. We hear them, they hear us. Both parties begin to understand each other.
This isn't a matter of who's right and who's wrong. It's a matter of how can marketers and their communities work together as partners to get to a better place.
Pic of dogs being dogs via Little Ben
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Comments
Let's approach this issue the way Alexander appraoched the Gordian Knot:
Show me the results. Anyone with time and a blog can post a manifesto. But very few people can show real, actionable results as a consequence of their rhetorically-inflated opinions.
It's time for the Cluetrain to pull into station-stop "Reality" and show us some success: what happened, where it happened, how it happened.
Posted by: Jonathan Kranz | 06.27.06
Well said, Mr Collier.
Walk with them, instead of talking to them
Posted by: Ryan | 06.27.06
"It's time for the Cluetrain to pull into station-stop "Reality" and show us some success: what happened, where it happened, how it happened."
Uhhh, the cluetrain is more of a commentary on the changing structure of business and markets. The cluetrain made some predictions and some broad suggestions like "participating in the conversation" but it was not presciptive. It was written in 1999 before the real social media explosion, before youtube, before flickr, before myspace, before facebook, before tagworld, before technorati, before podcasts, befor vlogs, before secondlife....
The cluetrain has nothing to prove. The amazing to me is that it isn't the number one business book in the world right now.
When the worldwide chief creative officer of of Leo Burnett says
"Marketers must learn to let go of the control they think they have over their brand.... Once consumers have interacted with brands they will not go back to being shouted at by marketers."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/bf054f88-01da-11db-a141-0000779e2340.html
You know things have changed.
Posted by: Karl Long | 06.27.06
""It's time for the Cluetrain to pull into station-stop "Reality" and show us some success: what happened, where it happened, how it happened."
Uhhh, the cluetrain is more of a commentary on the changing structure of business and markets. The cluetrain made some predictions and some broad suggestions like "participating in the conversation" but it was not presciptive."
But how much of what we read in Cluetrain was revolutionary, and how much was simply a new way of expressing an old idea? Is 'markets are conversations' a revolutionary idea, or a new way to describe 'word of mouth'?
"The cluetrain has nothing to prove. The amazing to me is that it isn't the number one business book in the world right now."
On the other hand, I am amazed that Cluetrain gets all the pub, while books such as Life After the 30-Second Spot seem to lag behind.
I think bloggers have such a strong attachment to the book because they feel it 'predicted' the blogging explosion. And I do think it's a good book, I just don't love it as much as some do.
I re-read some of it a few weeks ago, and what really struck me was that the 'People=good, marketing=bad' theme seemed to be influencing the writers. Sorry, but I don't buy the 'marketing is a necessary evil' mentality.
Posted by: Mack Collier | 06.27.06
"When you tell marketers that, 'You are wrong, the community is right. Deal with it!', many of them will cave to human nature, stick their middle finger in your face, and say, 'No YOU deal with THIS!'"
Much as THAT is human nature...I also think it's human nature to view issues through a lense that's already created, rather than try and create a new lense. The control over the marketing message is definitely shifting, and it seems it's hard for us to see that there's no good guys and bad guys, no pure marketers and pure markets...rather, it's one big rolling connected mass.
That's a little scary, and off-putting, and unsettling...as we try to get footing in a shifting landscape. So in my view, that instability is the breeding ground for the "war" Mack describes.
Posted by: Ann Handley | 06.27.06
"But how much of what we read in Cluetrain was revolutionary, and how much was simply a new way of expressing an old idea?"
I think the cluetrain was the first to admit that it was rehashing a very old idea, ie. conversation was the first "medium" or "media".
IMHO the Cluetrain was a badly written book, and was a massive failure in many ways because it chose to talk down to its key audience, ie. business people. Bloggers liked it because it makes them look smart and business people look dumb, which is why it might get talked up in the blogosphere, but its just too full of hubris for many business people to choke down.
As for Beyond the 30 second spot, I don't know, Jaffe hasn't sent me a copy yet :-)
K
Posted by: karl long | 06.27.06
"IMHO the Cluetrain was a badly written book, and was a massive failure in many ways because it chose to talk down to its key audience, ie. business people."
Exactly. Whenever you're trying to present a new idea, or an old idea in a new way, you need to realize that HOW the message is delivered can be as important as the message.
"As for Beyond the 30 second spot, I don't know, Jaffe hasn't sent me a copy yet :-)"
Well he did let you drone on for 30 mins in an audio comment to ATS.
No wait....30 mins was how long it took me to download it....
Posted by: Mack Collier | 06.27.06
Although it's probably not about who's wrong and who's right, I do think it can be said that the community is never wrong.
Now, they may not have their facts straight, or whatever, but how they feel and how they react is never wrong, it's just how it is.
And a marketer is wrong if he or she doesn't listen, adapt to, and ultimately, become a part of the community.
Posted by: Paul McEnany | 06.27.06
"And a marketer is wrong if he or she doesn't listen, adapt to, and ultimately, become a part of the community."
Bingo. That was my whole point, let's stop worrying about who has control, who's winning, let's worry about how we can work together to make EVERYONE winners.
Posted by: Mack Collier | 06.28.06
Excellent post... again.
"So which side is winning this war? If you have to ask this question, then be certain that YOU are on the side that's losing." Tht's my favorite part and really does make the greatest amount of sense.
I'm not a trained/ educated marketer, so I have never really felt qualified to comment on the Cluetrain phenomena, but isn't it all really just common sense? Is it really earth shattering? If so, then maybe this whole idea of "us against them" still makes sense to you. (Please don't think I'm trying to be an ass or insulting, because I am not.) Honestly, I've never read the whole book because it all just read like common sense to me- though a bit condescending in the delivery.
Does anybody really still think that dialog, conversation, building community and working with the audience/ community to craft a way to spread the message is not the way to do things?
The old way of creating a message and force feeding it to the audience is dead, or at least terminally ill. Creating evangelists who go out and do our evil bidding for us is really the most effective way to make this all happen.
I also like the comment that "we walk with them". So true. As with all social media, if you are not involved in the community and are just trying to push a message... it will get lost and/ or ignored.
Posted by: Tim Jackson | 06.29.06
"Does anybody really still think that dialog, conversation, building community and working with the audience/ community to craft a way to spread the message is not the way to do things?"
Since we are bloggers and spend a lot of time online, we see how easily communities can form and come together. For companies/marketers that aren't as online saavy, it can be harder for them to realize just how quickly their customers can come together, and how many tools they have to communicate easily and relatively effortlessly. Which of course is no excuse, this is why you need to be in constant communication with your customers, so you know what tools they are using to communicate and congregate, and use these same tools.
Posted by: Mack Collier | 06.29.06